|
Post by Steverb on Nov 8, 2010 14:12:13 GMT
From what I'm gathering from this thread, and other internet discussions about bars, it seems that it is much less clear cut than I had realised - I was under the impression that virtually all country dobro players use railroad-type bars and that bullets were for lap style blues or hawaian styles only. Most of the bluegrass teachers seem to use railroads - Troy Brenningmeyer, Cindy Cashdollar, Doug Cox etc). But I don't want to just play bluegrass on my dobro, I also want to play slower, more pedal steel-type sounds and the slants really help with that. Do I need to get used to both types or can you play bluegrass with a bullet bar too?
Colin,what's a split slant? Surely both ways at once defies the laws of physics!
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 8, 2010 15:38:41 GMT
Hi Steve,
Correct - 99.999999% of Dobro players use bars based on the 'Stevens' design. A large percentage of Hawaiian & Blues players also use these bars. However, the bullet-type bar is considered by many of the 99.99999999999% of players who use Stevens-type bars to be the best, but it is a lot harder to get used to. I have had this conversation with a few of the world's great Dobro players and they surprisingly are in awe of Hawaiian bullet users.
IMO the bullet is smoother, sweeter, more manoeuvrable, better in almost every way, and eventually more comfortable, BUT .....it is much harder to get used to.
Old-style Dobro players used Hawaiian bullets because the old style of playing country Dobro is closer to Hawaiian steel playing than it is to modern Dobro playing, much of which is really banjo playing on a lap steel guitar. That is not putting modern Dobro playing down, I love it, but it is not a very close relative of Hawaiian steel guitar playing, which is where I am coming from.
I hope I am making myself clear?
Once again, the best answer is to try both and see which you prefer. The problem is that it will take you quite a long time to work out which one you prefer, by which time it may be too late to change!!! I have used both and could never get to grips with the Stevens bar as it was too limiting for me.
To sum up > I really do believe the Hawaiian bullet is THE tool for playing lap steel guitar, unless you want to play modern high speed bluegrass with super-fast hammer-ons and pull-offs, then the Stevens-type is the best.
Most of the players I really admire, old and new, apart from a couple of the modern Dobro players, use Hawaiian bullets.
I hope that (a) makes sense.....and (b) is of some help,
Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 8, 2010 17:26:44 GMT
Yes it does Michael. Thanks for painstakingly answering my (very ignorant) questions. Much as I also love it, I fear that the chances of my ever being able to play 'high speed bluegrass with super-fast hammer-ons and pull-offs' are slim indeed, whatever type of bar I use, sadly! Unless I suddenly develop some hitherto undiscovered double hand coordination that has eluded me in forty (count 'em) years of regular guitar playing I suspect that I will remain resolutely in the middle lane at whatever style of music I attempt, with whatever tools I use to do so. I have a room full of very nice guitars but that is because I like guitars, not because I kid myself that they magically turn me into a professionally competent player. Also, I'm too much of a dabbler in different styles to practice enough to get really good in any one - the curse of catholic taste. That being the case I will persevere with the Shubb SP2 bar to try and get whatever proficiency I can with bluegrass hammer-ons and pull-offs, but also investigate bullet bars, as you suggest, for the more old timey stuff. I'll probably start with the Broz-o-phonic as it is less prohibitively expensive than the Tribotone; I can always move on to one of those if I take to a bullet bar. On a different tack, do Tribotone make a noiseless bottleneck? I'd have thought one of those would be ideal for playing electric bottleneck as long as it's not too heavy. Thanks again for the answers. And well done for doing the lap style DVD; very well thought out and delivered and, as you say, you can actually see what your hands are doing, unlike many DVDs. Steve Read more: michaelmesser.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=advertizing&action=display&thread=3445&page=3#ixzz14iBhvAR8
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 8, 2010 17:37:57 GMT
Hi Steve,
Eric, AKA >Mr Tribotone, is going to market a bottleneck slide, but like so many of these things that we try to get off the ground, it has taken a lot longer than he originally planned.
I have been testing prototypes for Eric for a year or so and they are very impressive. I was using the first incarnation of them at the slide-fest back in January.
Thanks for the kind words about the DVD. I pleased that you like it and can learn from it.
Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by colinbrooks on Nov 8, 2010 19:01:10 GMT
Steverb asks what is a split slant.
Once you have got the hang of a bullet bar you can form 3 string chords like
string 1 fret 12 string 2 fret 12 string 3 fret 11
A little gentle pressure gives you a nice 6th chord. Sounds great when you slide into it from 5 frets down.
I learned to play with a Stevens bar but had to go the bullet route when I got my 1st 8 string. Several weeks hard work. Coming back to my old tricone once I had the hang of it was magical. It really is worth the time and trouble.
Cheers, Colin
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 8, 2010 21:12:44 GMT
I'm confused (no change there then). Do you have a bendy bar? How can you fret two strings at the 12th and another at the 11th at the same time?
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 8, 2010 22:00:39 GMT
Hi Steve, For single note runs it is easy, but for chords, which is what Colin is saying, you have to blur the middle string with vibrato and sleight of hand. Colin is correct, those chords do sound great, but don't run before you can walk as it is a difficult technique to master. I may be wrong and Colin has a bendy bar Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by colinbrooks on Nov 9, 2010 19:06:16 GMT
'Do you have a bendy bar? How can you fret two strings at the 12th and another at the 11th at the same time? '
I'm talking about bullet bars. Bullet bars have a rounded end. You can fret strings 1 and 2 at the twelth fret using that rounded end with the bar slanted to play the 3rd string at the 11th fret. Gentle downward pressure + vibrato keeps everything in tune.
Don't know what else to say. Colin
Just remembered that in Stacy Phillips Dobro book he has a photograph of slides, a Stevens, a bullet AND A SAUSAGE.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 9, 2010 19:30:24 GMT
Colin, I know what you meant. I should have mentioned the bullet in my reply to Steve. It does take some practice to get that technique, but you are right, a bullet bar and downward pressure. That is what I meant buy sleight of hand.
Shine On Michael.
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 9, 2010 21:30:06 GMT
OK Colin, that makes sense. I can see how, with a bullet bar at an angle, you could use the rounded end to play adjacent strings at the 12th fret and a third string at the 11th.
Doubtless I will ignore your sterling advice about not running before I can walk Michael, and go straight for the split slant the moment I get my hands on a bullet bar. But since I don't own one yet I will concentrate on more sensible techniques with my Shubb bar in the meantime.
Sorry, I seem to have completely railroaded this thread off-topic. I'll shut up now.
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 10, 2010 17:53:46 GMT
OK, I know I said I'd shut up now but just need to say that I've discovered you can play split slants with a Shubb SP2 bar! One end of the bar is just rounded enough to fret the top two strings whilst angling the bar to the third string a fret below. Groovy sounds! Thanks guys. So much for not running before I can walk. Hey ho.
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 12, 2010 10:04:29 GMT
Hi Steve,
Keep on running!
Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 12, 2010 12:58:19 GMT
Bom baba baba baba, bom baba baba baba, bom bom bom ba bom ba bom (all heavily fuzz-toned, of course). Fantastic song.
I'll be playing that song with my band, The Reverbs, tomorrow night at a charity gig at The New Beehive Pub in Bradford. Can't think why it never occurred to me to publicise it on here before (doh!). I'll start a new thread in Talking Blues, although it's a bit late now.
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Nov 12, 2010 15:26:20 GMT
This thread is great and taken a few twists and turns (all on the subject of course!), but I think I need to knock it back on to the tracks so we don't lose sight of the original subject......... AN INTRODUCTION TO LAP STEEL GUITAR For Blues, Country, Hawaiian and Bluegrass styles, on resophonic, electric, or acoustic lap steel guitar. This tuition DVD contains all the building blocks you need to start playing lap steel guitar. Michael Messer provides clear instructions, plus numerous insights and hot tips. The film is divided into 25 chapters for easy navigation, and runs for almost 2 hours, which is amazing value. Although aimed at beginners, this DVD is useful for players at all levels. Available from: EURO BLUES PROMOTIONS LTD PO BOX 478 CHELTENHAM GL52 2XW Email: info@euroblues.co.uk www.euroblues.co.ukwww.euroblues.co.uk/merchandise.htm Shine On Michael
|
|
|
Post by Steverb on Nov 12, 2010 16:18:32 GMT
Absolutely!
And damn fine it is too.
Steve
|
|