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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 9, 2010 11:43:37 GMT
Hi Quarterquay,
Although we do use the same workshops as Republic to build our guitars, we do not have the same quality control system in place and our designs and setups are different. I am not connected to Republic guitars in any way and cannot comment about the headstock of your guitar. I have looked at your photo and can see what has been done. If you like that guitar and would like to keep it, it would not be difficult to refill that with something better that matches the wood.
Regarding the aged finish: I have spoken to Robin and he suggests you use various grades of wire wool to remove the aged finish. It is not a chemical process, it is a paint of some kind with lacquer over the top. You may find you need to remove some of the nickel too, as the aged finish is sometimes used to cover a flaw in the nickel plating. Not a difficult job and it should look great when you have finished; still aged, but with no thumbprints.
Keep me posted on how you get on
Shine On, Michael
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Post by tark on Aug 9, 2010 17:03:03 GMT
I'm afraid many of the Chinese workshops deal with the low end of the budget market and operate on very low profit margins. The materials many of them use are often the cheapest they can find and vary a lot in quality. Most of Chinese workshops operate on a 'all guitars built get shipped' basis and attempts to salvage manufacturing faults are often rudimentary. Seems to me they ran in to a rough bit of wood on that headstock while drilling it and the hole just tore out. They then tried to disguise the fault by plugging the hole with anything handy. Now whether that plug material is axle grease mixed with wood ash or possibly bogus or badly mixed epoxy filler that just hasn't set properly is hard to say. Whatever it is it is a structural fault and by most Western standards should not have reached you the customer.
The thumb print in the artificial ageing is typical of the huge variations in quality you see in the low end Chinese instruments. They just don't have the margin to pay for the time, expertise and quality control it takes to get these things right. You may find you can improve the look of the finish but it will take a lot of work. Getting the surface layer of lacquer off could be tricky and then there is always the danger of polishing through the nickel plating layer down to the bare steel.
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 9, 2010 18:01:04 GMT
While I agree with Tark's comments, my suggestion of fixing it yourself is because you may not be able to replace it with a better one of that same model. Regarding the aged finish; Tark is correct that you may go through some of the nickel plating. In my previous post I commented on that.
You have four choices; leave it as it is, fix it yourself, return it to the shop you bought it from, contact Republic Guitars direct.
I am puzzled about your original comment that a normal size National-style resonator guitar is too big for you? They are smaller than most regular acoustic guitars and they have been that size for 83 years. I have nothing against the small parlour size resonator guitars, but I am surprised that you find the others too big.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 19:51:18 GMT
My opinion, for what its worth........Thats just taking the p**s. If I was sold that It would go back to the shop asap with my compliments, or lack of them as the case may be!
Understood, the guitar sounds and plays well, but, given the possibility of long term problems, plus the obvious lowered resale value there is no way I'd go for it. I'd rather get my money back and keep looking. Doubtless you worked long and hard for the money to buy that guitar, like most of us mortals. All that graft and saving deserves the best you can get.
Rich.
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Post by Quarterquay on Aug 9, 2010 20:08:15 GMT
Thanks both,for your comments and thanks Michael for speaking to Robin. I'm going to mull it over for a while as to what to do. I'll probably hold on to the guitar as they seem to be few and far between here. I emailed Frank at Republic and one of his suggestions was similar,fine grit sandpaper. Grades of wire wool sound better to me, though a lot of work as Tark says but then as you say Michael,if I want to keep the guitar that's one of the choices. Frank also suggested gently wiping the area of the thumbprint with Lacquer thinner (tail plate test first) if I just wanted to sort that area out. He also said that it was possible to strip the finish with paint stripper but again test a small area on the tail plate.Mind you he also said that sometimes it was best to leave as is! About the size Michael, just a personal thing,I have a standard acoustic guitar that I've owned for years but a couple of years ago I picked up a cheap little yamaha 'guitarlele', basically a tiny guitar in Portobello,nothing special but I found myself playing it more and more in preference to the big acoustic so I think I must just have a thing about small guitars and parlour size was somewhere between the two,but then so is a Delta.I took a shine to the size of the Busker Cannon but couldn't find one to try, then found a similar one by Republic but it didn't have the volume and tone I was looking for and then realized that Republic did the steel parlour size and Busker didn't. If they had I would have much preferred to have ordered from Robin. I'm moving to Ireland in a couple of months and Robin's workshop is pretty much on the route between where I'll be living and my folks in Lancashire. I could have dropped in on the way through to pick up a guitar.Sadly ,not to be. Edit: Then again having just read your comments Rich,underneath it all I do think that Republic are taking the p**s somewhat.Okay ,it's nowhere near the price of a National but it's still a lot of money and took me an age to get together. Part of me probably doesn't want to take it back because I can't put it down but maybe I shouldn't let my heart rule my head on this.
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Post by percythewonderant on Aug 9, 2010 23:10:09 GMT
Hi Qq, That must be very distressing for you, having bought a new guitar only to find that it is not up to standard.
To me that looks like very bad quality control combined with a bodge.
From your description It sounds as if the filler could be blue tack. Not something that any luthier needs to use as they should have plenty of glue and wood dust about. Combined they make great wood filler which is cheaper and blends in better than plastic wood, or blue tack.
So it may just have been a bodge by the seller!
Your story is a dreadful piece of publicity for Republic guitars if they are at fault.
I would advise you not to undertake any repair work until you have finally made your decision. If you make any alterations yourself, there is a very good chance that it will negate any warranty that you might have.
Is there anyway you can bring yourself to take it back to the shop? It may be worth ringing the supplier to see what the returns policy is. Talk to the owner if you can, but at least a manager. It might be worth mentioning that you haven't mentioned their name on the internet, and add - yet!
They may fix it properly as it is in their interests to make sure that you are happy with your purchase. (One day you may go looking for something a lot more expensive. If you are happy with their after sales service it could be them that takes your money).
Good luck Perce
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Post by wolvoboy on Aug 10, 2010 7:36:38 GMT
There is another option you could try,take the guitar back to the shop show them what the problem is an tell them that you are not happy,tell them that you would like to keep the guitar and ask for a discount as your guitar is a second and should not have been sold in that condition.or swop it for another one. wolvoboy
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Post by Quarterquay on Aug 10, 2010 9:49:04 GMT
I'm going back to the shop today to talk to them. I already rejected the other variations of this model that they have,and they only had one other of this specific model with the relic finish. That one really wasn't up to scratch in my humble opinion as far as sound and set up was concerned and I didn't even pay much attention to the finish on it. The trouble is that this has put doubt in my mind about the build and quality control. It's not as if I can pull them apart in the shop and look inside. Who knows what might be going on inside.I don't want to judge too harshly as for one thing,regardless of these faults the guitar plays well for what it is and for another I'm not an expert on guitar construction. Given that ,I do have a couple of excellent cabinet maker mates who would fall on the floor laughing at the bodge on the tuner hole! It's not just the hole bodge itself,if you look to the right of the hole, s937.photobucket.com/albums/ad212/Quarterquay/?action=view¤t=tuner-shot-2.jpg there's a small amount of filler there which highlights what just might be a fracture in the wood.I'm not saying it is for sure,part of me doesn't want to get too picky but if it is it suggests that when it was drilled it wasn't drilled in parallel with the front and back planes of the headstock. Not good if it is so,but I'm not going to pull it apart to check. First port of call is the shop. I doubt they'd drop the price as I already haggled them down and to be honest I think I'd still walk away feeling uncomfortable about the guitar. I'll see how it goes in the shop and let you all know the result in due course.
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Post by percythewonderant on Aug 10, 2010 12:50:32 GMT
Does anyone know who the importer is? They might be the next people to get in touch with to get the problem sorted out.
Perhaps 'Frank' should be invited to post an explanation on this thread!
I just sent him a note - hope that that's OK. Meddle meddle..
Without wanting to sound too creepy it does make me realise what good value for money the MM reso's are even if a little extra is spent on quality control!
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 10, 2010 13:23:09 GMT
There are many happy owners of Republic resophonic guitars all over the world. This is a one-off Friday afternoon rogue guitar that has somehow managed to go unnoticed until now.
I am sure the difficulty for Republic is that they are in Texas and this guitar is in London.
Frank and I do not see each other as competition and are very supportive of each others' work. If there was anything I could do to help, I would do it.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by percythewonderant on Aug 10, 2010 15:01:13 GMT
The only Republic resonator that I have had a chance to get better aquainted with was a 14 fretter, which had a normal size brass body and which was rather reminiscent of the Vintage AMG1 which I have used as a second guitar for years. There were no problems with it that I could see, or hear for that matter.
When the Vintage AMG1 was first introduced I bought one which had an amazingly good sound. After a few weeks, due to misplaced 'mushrooms' the instrument started to dish rather obviously. John Hornby Skewes got another one to me by express delivery and offered to pay for a local luthier to check it and set it up to my specs. It wasn't necessary. It has been solid from the day I received it. Their after sales service was so good that I wouldn't hesitate to buy another instrument supplied by them.
I think that the concept of the parlour sized reso is a good one and adds to the interesting history of the development of resonator instruments. It seems a shame that sub standard instruments should be shipped to the disappointment of the customer.
Though the other issue that l have a beef is with relic'd instruments in general. I try really hard to stop mine from getting relic'd the hard way.
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Post by growler on Aug 10, 2010 15:19:20 GMT
Before this starts to get into a thread to bash Frank Kelsey, the owner of Republic guitars .......... lets not ? For all the newer members on this forum , this was the American entrepreneur who took it on himself to find and set up this factory in Shanghia a long time before Michael and Robin started to have their guitars made there. I can assure you his intentions were exactly the same as Michaels philosophy when he started this factory , good quality guitars at a budget price. This guy had to face the wrath of the ´National based forum members when his guitars first started appearing in the States , first of all , where are these guitars being made , some thinking they came from a place called Republic in Texas. When they discovered they were ´ Chinese ´ made guitars the '#it really hit the fan ....... Who is this Frank Kelsey , I am sure the poor bloke literally had to disappear for a few months for his own safety because of what was being said about him and his guitars. Then slowly but surely the recommendations started to come in from the American guitar buyers , professional musicians started to take notice of his guitars and started to endorse them....... why , because the guy was giving them good quality guitars at a budget price , exactly what he set out to do . I tend to agree with what Michael has said on this one , its could be a one off . At least Quaterquay you have had the luxury of trying out other guitars , many of us do not have this luxury when we buy over the internet , you are stuck with what you receive . Incidentally , I ordered a Weissenborn off Frank early on in the year , dealing with him is no problem, he is a courteous guy , replies to all your e-mails ............. The Weissenborn, when I received it , ...... fantastic , just what I would expect for the budget price I paid for it, I was not expecting it to be the quality of Weissenborns nearly 4 times the price of what I paid for mine.
Just as people should not expect to receive a resonator the quality of a NRP when they order a budget reso.
Regards
Growler
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Post by percythewonderant on Aug 10, 2010 16:53:54 GMT
I wasn't suggesting that we should bash Frank Kelsey. He might have something to say about a Republic branded instrument getting through to the customer with fairly obvious faults.
I don't know what the gloopy stuff is, that the instrument came with, anymore than Quarterquay does but whatever the price level it shouldn't be there.
Cheap doesn't have to equate to bad. Or are these things so cheap as to be disposable? Quaterquay was obviously concerned about the future value of the guitar when the time comes to trade up, so he doesn't seem to think so.
If Republic products are being shipped to Europe from China there is a good chance that Republic has no quality control over what gets here. The agent this end should have some idea though.
I'll butt out of this thread - I don't wish to get up anyones nose.
Regards Perce
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 10, 2010 17:19:35 GMT
I have just received an email from Frank at Republic Guitars. He has tried to post on the forum but had problems with registration. Frank asked me to post this on his behalf.
To all:
I am Frank, the owner of Republic Guitars.
Someone sent me a link to this thread today. I have been corresponding with this gentleman for the last few days. As with any product, details can be missed doing quality control. I personally tweak and check every guitar I ship out. The most important part of the quality control is the tone and playability. Evidently the issues mentioned were missed by me, then the dealer, and then the gentleman that looked and played the guitar before he bought it. The issues mentioned do not affect the playability, the sound or the stability of the guitar. One of the first emails I received about the guitar was that he loved it so much that he had a hard time putting it down. I do my best to please every one of my customers. I am not perfect but strive to do the very best I can. If you know of a guitar company or any company that is perfect, please let me know. Think about this: Would you rather have a great sounding and playing guitar that is hard to put down that has a couple of cosmetic flaws or a flawless looking instrument that is lacking in good tone and playability? Every guitar has a different sound.
My advice is that when you find one with the magic tone….keep it and play it!
Frank.
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Post by Stevie on Aug 10, 2010 18:21:30 GMT
I can't believe that even the most reprehensible musical instrument importer / distributor would miss a flaw such as the one shown in those images. Something has happened to this instrument which has not been revealed as yet. I "do" quality control for a loosely aerospace related company making cabin insert equipment. I see the feedback from the major airplane manufacturers detailing the faults in our product(s) Many are subjective and quite often fall within mutually agreed (but not mutually applied) criteria. Then you get some faults that have clearly happened at some stage in transit or installation and we just have to take it on the chin. Someone ought to 'fess up" here in order to put a stop to what is effectively besmirching Frank's good name. Let's not hold our (collective) breath though, this is the internet after all!
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