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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 17, 2009 10:40:13 GMT
I have done some research and I am now sure of my facts about Continental guitars.
The first run of Continentals were made in Germany, but it was too expensive and the body moulds were sent to China. The German Silver is shipped to China from Germany. The parts are all made in China by workshops affiliated with the AXL company. The parts are shipped to Germany and assembled in Germany.
Apart from one or two details, what I originally said about Continentals is correct.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Niek on Nov 17, 2009 15:37:24 GMT
I have done some research and I am now sure of my facts about Continental guitars. The first run of Continentals were made in Germany, but it was too expensive and the body moulds were sent to China. The German Silver is shipped to China from Germany. The parts are all made in China by workshops affiliated with the AXL company. The parts are shipped to Germany and assembled in Germany. Apart from one or two details, what I originally said about Continentals is correct. Shine On Michael Hi Michael, Thanks for your information. What do you think about this Continental Tricone?: Click.... This one is also made in 1993 and made in Germany. Deutsche gründlichkeit Is it a good bargain? I think that the finish inside this guitar is on a higher level then Republic or Busker. By the way, what does the following mean? There is a beautiful aging patina to the inside metal.I have reduced my wishlist and now there are three guitar that I want to chose from: This is the first one and the most expensive one: It's a new National Vintage Steel incl case. I will have to pay about 2000 euros for this one. The second one is a used National Polychrome tricone with case. The case has been painted black on the front because the former owner wrote his name on it. The guitar is in a very good condition except for a real small mark on top of the headstock. This guitar is going to cost me about 1300-1400 euros.This is the one: The last one is the 1993 Continental tricone: Openingsbid is 800 dollar.
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 17, 2009 17:46:47 GMT
Hi Nico,
Made in Germany, made in China; it is still exactly the same as a Busker guitar. It was made in the same moulds as were sent to China to make all AXL guitars. There is nothing about a Continental that separates it from a Chinese-built Busker Tricone. I know that headstock, I know those tuners, I know all the components because I have seen them on guitars from the workshop that builds our guitars.
I do not understand the reverence to Continental guitars. If you are asking for my advice, you should have kept the Busker Tricone. It was a beautiful sounding guitar.
Good luck,
Shine On Michael.
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Post by Niek on Nov 17, 2009 18:04:13 GMT
Hi Nico, Made in Germany, made in China; it is still exactly the same as a Busker guitar. It was made in the same moulds as were sent to China to make all AXL guitars. There is nothing about a Continental that separates it from a Chinese-built Busker Tricone. I know that headstock, I know those tuners, I know all the components because I have seen them on guitars from the workshop that builds our guitars. I do not understand the reverence to Continental guitars. If you are asking for my advice, you should have kept the Busker Tricone. It was a beautiful sounding guitar. Good luck, Shine On Michael. Ok, they have all the moulds of Continental in China, but I think that the assembly is on a lower level then when these guitars where assembled in Germany. That's the big difference in my opinion.
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Post by toom on Nov 18, 2009 12:24:11 GMT
I have just read the first 2 pages on this thread - it would have helped if I had read them before I posted! I wasn't aware of the similarities between Continental/Busker. I have always believed that for a period of a few years Continental guitars made by Amistar were world class. They certainly look good.Perhaps they weren't.
it's very difficult to argue with Michael's logic and in-depth knowledge - just wish I'd read his comments before voicing my own. Ooops - again.
As an aside - how do you post photos of several guitars, like in this thread?
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Post by washboardchris on Nov 18, 2009 13:33:18 GMT
Hi, I have never tried a busker tricone,but I have had a continental tricone that compared very well to the Beltona I have(very nice bound ebony fingerboard diamond inlays style4 flow through engraving & better tuners than you tend to get on NRP guitars(some of which were yery bad) I sold this guitar to a freind of mine who owns 3 or 4 vintage Nationals (square neck tri cones) & he finds the sound compaires very well.just to add more confusion I have seen an early Jhonson with an Amistar body. As a hard up musican I would go for the second hand NRP as it is the guitar that is most likely to make its money back should you need to sell it.
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 18, 2009 14:08:04 GMT
Hi Toom,
Thank you for your kind message. I was not totally correct on my facts until I did some recent research with friends in Germany. The history of all this is quite complicated and hard to get to the bottom of.
My knowledge of all things resophonic comes from over 30 years of being around all this stuff. In my time reviewing the German, Czech, Chinese & Korean budget priced guitars, I learnt a lot about them. But it wasn't until I started producing my own instruments with Busker Guitars that I really got a handle on how the whole thing works.
When I visited China in March I learnt even more because the people who produce MM, Busker and Republic guitars have been involved with the Chinese resonator guitar business since day one.
I now understand how occasionally Johnsons with Amistar bodies turned up. We recently received an MM guitar with a Republic neck. It was just an error at the workshop. We did not sell it, we have returned it to our manufacturer. We also had a German Silver Busker Tricone that we ordered. I think it was destined for Continental but came our way. They are beautiful guitars.
I am not 100% sure, but I think our people in China have been involved with most of the brands we have been talking about. Next time I visit China I will find out more about all this. It is fascinating and important for the history books.
One should not assume that because something is manufactured in China that it would not be as good as the same product manufactured in the West. That is an old fashioned viewpoint based on preconceptions associated with cheap products bearing the 'Made In China' label.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by tark on Nov 20, 2009 1:49:06 GMT
The issue of how and where things are made is certainly an interesting one and I think its something that will have an increasing effect on all our lives in the very near future.
The Chinese factories and craftsmen are certainly capable of making products of the highest quality. However at the moment in general the Chinese made products that are sold in bulk in the West are not of the very highest quality. I believe that on the whole Western importers go to the Chinese manufacturers and say "I want something that looks like this and I'm not prepared to pay more than this much for it".
Chinese guitars often look great from the outside and represent very good value for money but when you look inside, where it is assumed most people aren't going to look, you often find all sorts of short cuts have been taken - odd bits of scrap wood and even cardboard jammed in as spacers and so on. Some of these instruments merely look like the originals they are copying but sound awful.
If you want the very best quality inside and out you have to be prepared to pay for it and to buy your guitars from companies that care more or at least as much about the quality of their product than about money and buying and selling price. My personal experience is that National ResoPhonic is one such company.
This is not meant as an attack on Busker or MM guitars. I have instruments of both brands and I am very pleased with them - good value for money and they sound great.
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Post by Niek on Nov 21, 2009 0:01:15 GMT
I have too agree with Tark. On the outside the Chinese manufactured instruments look nice, but the inside is a part of the guitar that has got less attention. Ok, for a couple of musicians this isn't important. They merely see there instruments as a workhorse with a good sound. The Busker and Republic guitars are good value for money with a good sound, but if you see your instrument also as an eyecatcher like me then the finishing on the inside is certainly also an important aspect. That's why I now have chosen for a National guitar.
By the way, I own three two guitars made in China. The first is a Blueridge BG-140. I was totally impressed by this guitar. Great finishing with a super sound. Also the inside is great! Also have a Ibanez AF-75 hollow body electric guitar. Piad 275 euros for this one. NEW!! Super finish! Amazing how they make these guitar for such a low price.
Also have a guitar made in Korea. It is a Fender Telecaster Ash. Nothing to complain about on this one.
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Post by bod on Nov 21, 2009 14:01:04 GMT
Interesting discussion - I guess we all have our own criteria and choose accordingly.
For my part, I'm not too worried about the aesthetics of the interior finish on my guitars, unless it impacts on function. (On which note,, the "finish" on the inside of the string holes on my Martin 00015s was just as rough and splintery as that on my Recording King RD27, despite the differences in country of origin and price)
Can't help thinking, though, that, whatever one's criteria, comparing companies with countries (e.g., National ResoPhonic with China) seems a bit odd. (Sorry, no offence intended, it just seems to me a funny way to come at the issue - comparing companies with companies or countries with countries seems less problematic, 'like with like', as they used to say.)
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Post by lewiscohen on Nov 21, 2009 17:11:54 GMT
Not quite sure what your selection criteria are SpoedNick. At first you want to know if the Continental is Brass or German Silver, and then it's joined on your shortlist by two steel bodied guitars which will not only sound different from each other but even more different from the Continental. Forgetting country of origin or manufacturer for a moment, what do you actually want the guitar you're planning to buy?
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Post by Niek on Nov 21, 2009 18:24:28 GMT
It's difficult to explain what I find important in a guitar. Especially to explain it in English.
Can anybody read Dutch and translate it for me?
By the way, the NRP steel bodies are not anymore on my wishlist. Also the Continental tricone.
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Post by oldmanblue on Nov 21, 2009 18:31:59 GMT
does it sound good,does it play well ,is it well made ,is it value for money ,does it look o.k.,if the answer to all the above is yes i do not give a monkey's were it is made or what name is on it ,there used to be this stigma about goods made in japan that changed i have 2 reso's made in the far east i have hade 1 upgraded & the other will be done in the new year & with the upgrades still way below the cost of that guitar .omb
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Nov 22, 2009 7:55:39 GMT
Hi
ill translate from dutch to english again sure....
al
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Post by Niek on Nov 22, 2009 13:11:25 GMT
Thanks al, I knew there would be someone with the expertise who would be willing to help. Speednick's got Resonator guitar fever and we need to find a cure pronto! Regards Chris (recovering Resoholic..............but not just yet) Hahahaha Yes, that's right. I've got the Resonator fever! By the way. Just found this on the internet: www.classifiedads.com/musical_instruments-ad1734676.htmLook at the prices for the Nationals. That can't be true. This makes me suspicious.
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