Where do I buy an Ebony capped bridge?

[Deleted]

Calling all UK resonator players!

I've bought a Vintage AMG3 tricone and have read a lot about upgrading the bridge with an ebony capped version. Has anyone done this in the UK? Does anyone out there know where I can find a supplier in the UK? I'd also like to hear about new nut materials such as Tusq as the nut needs raising for better string clearance when playing bottleneck.

Slide on!

[Alan]

I think someone once posted this for me, and I kept the addy
www.petewoodmanguitars.com/

Shouldnt be that much, I think he could also get hold of carbon fibre biscuits !

I bet there are other luthiers about that could also get hold of them too, or email National Resophonic and see what they have.

What are those tricones like ?

[Michael Messer]

MESSAGE FOR TRICONE JOHN:

Hi John,

Good to hear from you. The AMG3 Tricones are excellent value for money and when carefully set up they sound great. Certainly I would advise a better bridge, whether ebony is the right choice is open for discussion. It will certainly make a noticeable difference; A>because the wood used by the factory is rubbish, and B>because ebony is so different to what you already have. Certainly a bone nut is an improvent on the plastic/fake bone nut that is factory fitted.

I know that Pete Woodman, Resound and LRC all do what they call 'upgrading' to these guitars; this is a new nut, new cone & a bridge. How much this affects the instrument is open for discussion. I have heard some that are dramatically improved by this & some that are no different at all. I think my personal viewpoint is that the most important factor in improving any resonator guitar, whether it's a budget Tricone or the real deal, is in the set-up.

One of the biggest problems with AMG Tricones is cone rattle, this is not easy to cure on these guitars because of the stability of the body & the pan. You can get them just right, but it takes time, patience & a fairly serious understanding of how these guitars actually work. At the distributors in the UK when these guitars arrive from Korea, they allow their set-up man (who admits he knows nothing about resophonic guitars) 5 to 10 minutes on each instrument before shipping them out to stores. A good repairer might spend one hour, two hours, or a whole day doing a set-up on a resophonic guitar.

I would recommend using good quality medium gauge strings (preferably Messer Newtones!), any good make will do the job, but consider that our strings are actually designed for these guitars and have now become virtually the industry standard in the resophonic world.

I am interested to hear other peoples opinion on this subject. There's a lot of AMG and other budget brands of resonator guitars in the UK these days, I'd be interested to hear from you.

When you do get your new bridge, or whatever you decide to get, please let us know where, how much, and how it has changed/improved the guitar.

Keep in touch John and I hope you enjoy using this new forum.

Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Thanks Alan and Michael M for your comments .

Alan; The AMG3 is an excellent budget tricone. It is not a Beltona or National but it certainly is a slide guitar with a voice of its own. It is a fair copy of a National Style 2 in bellbrass with a matt nickel finish. Looks good, plays OK and can easily be improved. I'm still putting together an open G and an open D set and as long as nobody follows me playing a National people seem to like the bluesy sound I can produce on it. Great to sing to, it like having a duet partner. If I ever get the chance yes I would trade up, but for now it is a good investment. What it lacks in technical perfection it makes up for in having a sort of primative blues voice, but given a chance with metal picks and decent strings it can sing like an angel too.

Michael ( am I really in dialgue with THE Michael Messer? Wow!)
I'll keep you posted on my progress although finances dictate that progress may be slow.

My prime objectives are to make the guitar more playable and effective in slide mode. The original strings were light gauge which sounded weak and tinny with plenty of cone rattle. (Why do Vintage reduce their chances of sales by putting light strings on? Commercial madness!) My best investment so far has been to put Newtone National 16 gauge strings on. The transformation was dramatic. More volume, a full bodied soulful tone, no cone rattle and more tension so the strings did not bottom out so easily.

The Nut and Bridge are my next objective. The Nut is made of some plain white plastic, is cut too deeply and is set too low. A harder material such as Bone would be better. I've looked at doing this myself but although I can buy a bone blank easily the nut files for the string grooves are very expensive so I think it cheaper to have a lutherer such as LRC do this for me.

The bridge is wooden and oddly profiled so the treble strings are slightly closer to the frets than the bass strings, I'd have prefered it the other way around. A good hardwood (Maple?) or carbon fibre or ebony capped bridge may be the answer. An ebony capped bridge may change the balance of treble to bass? Also the bridge slides easily in the T-piece and for optimum sound transmission surely it ought to be a close fit.

The cones are reasonable, spun with raised spirals. I can replace those with Nationals myself at a later date once this instrument has earnt its upgrade.

Another item that I will tackle myself is to repositioning the mushroom posts that space the back of the guitar from the neck post that runs through the body to the strap button. Vintage have been overenthusiastic and put in too many props and positioned them to stop the back from vibrating. This is unfortunate as the back should resonate to enhance the bass.
I'll remove the central post and reposition the other two so they are well spaced towards the neck stick and strap button. According to many Johnson owners (the AXL Vintage as sold in the USA) this makes a dramatic difference to the bass volume and overall tone. I've already poked about and those props are well stuck in but only to the metal back so next time I change strings I'll prise them off and reposition them. Wish me luck!

Ideally I ought to record some music before and after these proposed upgrades so you can judge for yourselves. I'll see what I can do. In the meantime I'll try my best to be objective.

Slide on

[Michael Messer]

MESSAGE FOR TRICONE JOHN:

Hi John, yes it's really me.....or at least I hope so!

The personal communication between myself & the community is part of the reason I have set up this forum. Too many artists keep & maintain a distance between themselves and their fans/people with similar interests. It is not easy when we are out on the road to get time to meet and talk with the people who come to the shows, so this forum allows me to do just that......PLUS......I enjoy sharing my 30 years experience and knowledge of resophonic guitars, blues & roots music and Hawaiian shirts with like minded people. I also think that apart from one or two other forums (which are US based) that there is not really a good quality forum where like-minded people can share knowledge and discuss. So please use it to comminicate with me and the rest of the community and enjoy! The more people we can get to use this forum ....the better.
BTW>>Let us know how you get on with your AMG3 upgrading.
Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Hi Michael et al

Bridge Supplier News

Ready made and slotted Maple and Ebony capped bridges are available from Beard Guitars in the States but the $30 import costs make them prohibitively expensive to buy individually.
HOWEVER.......the London Resonator Centre are agents and can aquire these for you at a more reasonable rate or fit them as part of an upgrade.

[Alan]

Get in touch with pete wood, they are mucc cheaper than that !

Beard's postage is a just a bit expensive, for sending something that small; also if you want it slotted I think they do it in shop.

[Deleted]

Alan, you're a star! I followed up your suggestion and contacted Pete Woodman. I don't know why I did not do this earlier as you nominated him in your first reply.

Pete suggested that if I remove the nut and bridge and post them to him he will use them as templates and make a new slotted bone nut and a new bridge for me. The price options including postage are:
Maple Bridge £5.50
Ebony Capped Bridge £9
Bone Nut £10
This is affordable!
The only down side is I'll be without a playable resonator for a week or so and may suffer from resonator withdrawal symptoms.

He suggested looking at www.frets.com to see how best to remove a nut and bridge without damaging the guitar.

This is the best news I've had so far and I intend to act on this in the near future. I will keep you posted about the effect this has on my AMG3's slide set up and sound.

[Deleted]

Upgrade completed! ;D
New bone nut, maple bridge and a mushroom mod.
Sound much improved. Recommended.

Pete Woodman made the bone nut and Maple bridge for me. The Nut is a work of art, looks great, precision fit, looks like it belongs. The Maple bridge is crafted very neatly with chamfered top to minimise the length of string in the slot. Nice touch! Thanks Pete.
The improvements have been in more volume, clarity of tone and longer sustain. All positive point.

The mushroom mod I did myself. The 3 mushroom props under the neckstick are all under the pan. this supports the pan well but stops the back from vibrating. I removed the central one with gentle persusion and a soft mallet, careful not to damage the back. The one near the neck was easily dislodged and now sits wedged under the 19th fret. The prop at the tail I left in situ.
Net result is more bass volume. I can now play bass slides and they don't fade.

The instrument definitely has more authority now. Must go and put new strings on it and play the wonderful thing!

[Michael Messer]

Hi John,

That's great news & a perfect finish to a long discussion.

Well done Pete

Best wishes & Shine On,
Michael.

[Alex S]

Hi Tricone John

I was reading your posts about changing the Bridge and Nut on your AMG3. I decided to call Pete Woodman and I ordered them both. I also ordered a couple of sets of Michaels Newtone Strings.
My question is John, the Bridge looks easy enough to change but did you have any problems changing the Nut. Is there any glueing etc. involved. I will have a look at the Frets site for some info. I stay in Scotland and most of the experts are down south.

Cheers

Alex

[LouisianaGrey]

The best advice is on Frets.com - with photos!

Basically when taking it off you first check it isn't lacquered in (it probably won't be). If it is, run a knife blade around it so it doesn't chip off. Put a small block of wood against the nut, and tap it lightly but firmly with a hammer. If you're anything like me the nut will fly across the room and disappear behind the furniture.

I usually use a couple of dabs of gel-type supeglue on the bottom of the new nut, and also where it butts against the fingerboard.

If you get stuck (ho ho) you can always give me a ring or drop me an email.

[Alex S]

Thanks Pete
I should have asked you more about this when I talked to you this morning. I also emailed Beard about replacement National Cones and Howard there reckons it's not worth fitting the Nationals unless you also fit a National T-Bridge as well? The cones and the T-Bridge are $108 each and shipping is$35. I'll probably leave the Cones for now and spend the cash on my old Harley and see you at the TT in the next couple of years.

Alex

[Deleted]

Hi Alex and Pete
The nut is not lacquered so a neat tap with a small hammer via a block of wood will send it under the nearest piece of furniture. (How does it know to do that Pete?)

The Cones I've left alone. If yours have raised spirals they are spun and of reasonable quality, not Nationals but still OK. Try them with the nut and bridge upgrade before you decide. They can easily be changed at a future date should you need to.

The T-piece is not plastic. It is a black powder coated aluminium casting. Johnson owners in the States have started bead blasting off the paint to get better sound transmission from bridge to casting and on to the cones. No paint to dampen the sound. Personally I am not doing this although I would like to know if it really makes that much difference. Besides, I don't know anyone with a bead blaster (Pete?)

Anyway I've had enough of being an acoustic technician, time to put the old tricone together get the thunb pick out and play that AMG , again, and again, and..Wow, sounds great..hope your mods work out as well as mine have Alex.

[Mark]

Ive also been thinking about one of these ebony capped bridges for my for my National. Could anyone tell me if it simply changes the sound or improves it ?and if so in what way ? is it worth having a boxwood one made bearing in mind this is what the originals where ? I know that National now use maple but assumed this was a cost exercise ?

Many Thanks