Resonator amplification

[smoochimoto]

I have been hired to play with an "acoustic" blues band for 8 (or more) dates over the winter and early spring at regional blues festivals (indoors, I hope-it's currently -2 C outside). The first question I was asked after the audition was how do I want to be amplified. They all use var pickups (fiddle, upright bass, & mandolin) and suggested I do the same. Coming from bluegrass, my kneejerk response was to use a mike, but they strongly suggested I at least install one in the instrument just in case.

Any input would be greatly aprreciated. I'm not fussy about much, but part of why I play acoustic music is because I like the sound of moving air. If I install one I want as natural a sound as possible, with no digital reverb, no chorusing, no phase shifting and no piezo plasticness. Ok, I'm VERY fussy about sound reproduction. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Lucian

[Deleted]

Use a Shure SM57, that's it. Don't be bullied or persuaded by others who may know nothing about amplifying a reso, it's absolutely nothing like trying to amplify a fiddle or mandolin. It's the easiest route for you and the soundman, and will give a fool-proof good sound.

[Michael Messer]

A Shure SM57 microphone is without doubt THE best way to do it. Set the EQ to look like a frown rather than a smile and remove all effects.

Depending on what instrument you are playing - to plug in a National single-cone or Tricone, the best pickups available are made by Highlander. They're expensive, but they are the best. To plug in a Dobro either use a McIntire or a Highlander.

In the world of pickups for resonator guitars these two brands, both with Scottish names, are way ahead of everyone else.

Shine On
Michael.

[andys]

I agree wholeheartedly that for amplifying a resonator a good mic has got to be the way to go, particularly if you are playing with other acoustic instruments and at a moderate volume.

I will add that once you get above a certain volume, the sound of a magnetic pickup on a resonator, through a cooking valve amp, is the way to go, for the purposes on avoiding feedback. Look at how many resonator players have amplified their resonators when playing at higher volume, Rory Gallagher, Kent DuChaine, Gwyn Ashton, Doug McCleod. They all use magnetic pickups actually fitted into their guitars, many of them using humbuckers or P90s. I am looking very seriously at getting one of those Kent Armstrong Slimbuckers to fit to my MM Blues, as I just love the tone of a magnetically amplified reso through a valve amp.

Actually even for acoustics, I would say that at low volume, a mic is great, but for higher volume playing or when using one with a band, the magnetic Fishman soundhole pickups just give such a reliable feedback free, piezo-buzz free tone. Just me, but I just dont like the tone of piezo or undersaddle pickups on acoustics.
The rule of thumb seems to me to be, amplify the air moving, or amplify the strings moving. Or combine the two.

[Michael Messer]

If you are loking for a magnetic pickup for a National-style guitar - check out the FLATBUCKER. I have not tried one yet, but I have heard some very reports about them



www.atte.de/

Shine On
Michael.

[smoochimoto]

Thanks guys, I'm sold. Since I already have an SM-57 the decision is even easier.

Regards,
Lucian

[growler]

Another very good way , apparently for amplifying a reso is one of those replacement cover plates with the pickup installed in it designed by Mike Dowling , people who have installed them speak highly of them ? I think you can find out about them on the National website. my preferred method would be the SM57 option, way cheaper and better sounding . Had a reso with a piezo pickup installed in it........ bloody awful, hated it , it sounded like you were playing a guitar made out of glass , all the overtones etc

Regards Growler

[andys]

I think National Resophonic market these as a "Hotplate". From what I kow it has a telestyle pickup and a volume control mounted on a replacement coverplate.

Like the one on this one

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270303888931

[robn]

First choice: SM57 - definitely the way to go for most situations.

Loud option: Mag p/u - that will get you over the top of the band (including "animal" on drums ) with the most feedback control. It will colour the tone, but if that is where you want to be it is the only way.

I've used the Flatbucker and was very impressed - loads of output and with careful positioning I got good balance from PB stings. Plus it is a beautiful hand made unit. (Don't expect to see many of these as each one is literally hand made by one guy!)

Peizo option: Mmmmm...... Taking aside the two "Scottish" options due to cost, which places them a little outside a budget guitar fit, then I would say look out for some new systems coming onto the market shortly that will be biscuit or bridge mounted (I'm talking biscuit bridge guitars here) rather than cone mounted. Why? Less harsh, more eq friendly, more feedback friendly, less likely to affect the acoustic tone of the guitar.

So why use a peizo if an SM57 is best? Well there are some occasions where a little bit of additional sound reinforcement helps but you want "close to acoustic" tone. eg - Noisy pubs, open mic's where you don't get to sound check, outdoor venues with crap p/a, busking where your voice and guitar share the same battery amp etc.

I'll get around to doing a page on this issue on my web site when I get some time, as this question seems to crop up loads.

Robin

[Michael Messer]

This is a subject that crops up all the time and I too have thought about putting up a webpage about it.

One point Robn; your 'loud option' comment is not totally correct. A magnetic PU will give you a different sound, it is less acoustic. It is no louder than a Highlander or McIntire PU.

When I play a National-style guitar with my band (Second Mind Band), I use the Highlander plugged via a DI box into the PA system - In the same set-up with my Dobro I use the McIntire and plug DI into the PA system.

When using Highlander and McIntire pickups I never get any feedback problems. They are expensive products, but to date they are without question the best pickups for National & Dobro guitars. (Highlander now makes a Dobro PU which I have not yet tried).

I too am interested to test a Flatbucker pickup. I like the sound of a magnetic PU as an another option.

Shine On
Michael.

[robn]

Hi Michael,

That was a poor choice of words on my part. By "loud option" I was refering to the background noise rather than the output of the p/u. I was thinking more about feedback resistance. The cheaper biscuit bridge p/us that are cone mounted tend to feedback as soon as anything gets a little "crunchy". A mag p/u will allow you to go a little further - but it is quite a different sound compared to the instrument acoustically.

I would think that anything bridge/biscuit mounted, like the Highlander, would be more feedback resistant than the usual centre cone mounted offerings whilst giving a more natural sound than a mag.

Robin

[pascal]

Bonjour!
What I use to do when performing with a band and a single cone wood-bodied resophonic is:
20% of the Highlander
80% with the SM-57
It is true that if you are moving just a bit (looking to the bass player for instance) from the mike, the sound disappear, so the highlander helps you to have a constant volume.

[smoochimoto]

I can relate to what Pascal is saying. Many a time have shifted my weight on stage and heard myself disappear, and usually I used an SM-81 running thru a preamp w/a notch filter. That may have been why the folks encouraged me to have one available, even if I elect to not use it. Still, I am nothing if not expense minded, and my hobbies usually pay for themselves, so maybe I'll get a Highlander after the first gig.

I've been told the indoor venues usually attract bet 700-1200 people (a little bigger than I thought). Maybe having reinforced sound is a good idea.

Thanks to all for the input
Lucian

[Michael Messer]

Pascal's method of amplifying his National-style guitars is certainly one that works. I know a few people who do that.

My problem with plugging in acoustic and resophonic guitars, no matter what pickup system I am using, is that it is no longer an acoustic instrument and that affects my approach to playing.

As soon as you plug in you lose control of your tone & volume. With a mic you can move around it to adjust volume & tone. With an electric guitar you have everything at your fingertips, but with a resophonic guitar plugged into a PA system that is not the case. With a good understanding of setting up a PA system and getting the EQ correct, I believe you should be able to get easily enough power to play in any type of venue. In thirty years of gigging with National-type guitars, I only ever plug in when I play with the band. Maybe I'm just an old purist!

Having said all that; all my road guitars have Highlanders & McIntires fitted just in case I ever need them.

Shine On
Michael.

[pascal]

<Maybe I'm just an old purist!>
No Michael!
It is just I am advertising scottish products, my dauther Lucie is living near Glasgow for four months now.