schireson / hollywood

[jeff]

michael and folks,
hope you can provide some info. i have an oooold 'hollywood' resonator guitar. very plain wooden body. the "label" - 'hollywood' - is burned into the headstock. on the back is a small decal with two patent dates listed - from 1932 and '33 -look em up and you get patents filed by schireson brothers. i've not been able to locate any other info on the guitar. might you steer me in this direction or that?

also, i want to replace the torn cone - biscuit bridge style - but it's an unusual diameter that no one seems to make these days - just under 9". anyone you'd recommend?
thanks,
jeff

[Michael Messer]

Hi Jeff,

(Thanks for moving your question to this board! If I don't put posts on the correct board, thay can get mislaid).

To identify your guitar properly, we could do with seeing a couple of photos. There's a couple of instruments that fit your description, but I think only one has the 9 inch cone.

One Shireson made 'Hollywood' guitar that has 'H' shaped F holes is an instrument that caused Dobro to sue Shireson for infringement of copyright. From your description, I don't think you have this model?

Regarding your question about a cone. You will not find anyone to make you a cone to fit that guitar. However (and I need to see a photo of the damaged cone), it is possible and not too difficult to cut down a 9.5 inch cone with scissors. I have seen this done successfully on more than one occasion. There is a risk of wrecking the new cone, but it is actually your only option. Unless the original can be repaired, and that is why I would like to see a photo.

We will get there - your guitar will be identified and restored!

Shine On
Michael.

[tark]

What is the exact measurement of the cone well?
National ResoPhonic sell a 9.375 inch Del Vechio cone for $80 and Beard do 8 1/4 inch cones for $52.50.

[Michael Messer]

It is worth knowing the exact measurement. The National Del Vecchio cone is designed for classical strings. The Beard cone is designed...I guess for student model National 1033 and 1133 models. If that is the case, it will not work because it is quite flat in its shape. I would love to be able to recommend a cone that will fit, but I have a feeling that cutting one to fit may be the only way. Unless the damaged one can be fixed. I also would not advise anyone to fit Beard cones in National type guitars. Beard Dobro cones are excellent, but their National cones are not. I reckon a Continental cone cut to fit and a ring of felt on the sound ring would do the job perfectly. The ring of felt absorbs rattles & buzzes and allows the sharp edge of the cone to bed into something. I have seen this done a few times on original Nationals and it works well.

Shine On
Michael.

[jeff]

michael,
howdy - thanks for the quick reply (once i got the message to the right board...). i have some pics, but i'm quite clueless as to how to get them to you via the forum. can you guide, instruct, admonish, etc.?

thanks for all the info and know-how thus far. i'm already smarter 'n i used to be!
jeff

[Michael Messer]

Hi Jeff, you need to upload the photos to a website and then link to them. If you have problems with it, email the photos to info@ myname .co.uk
and I will upload and link to them for you.

Shine On
Michael

[Colin McCubbin]

Hi Jeff,

You could also email them to me at notecannons, to : [e-mail]

Have you looked at the few schireson pics and patents I have at notecannons (Look under parents in the menu)

Colin

[jeff1lcynil]

michael,
hi - just checking in - did you receive the pics i sent via email?
best,
jeff

[Michael Messer]

Hi Jeff, not yet.....no email from you.

Shine On
Michael.

[Colin McCubbin]

Hi Jeff,

I got the pics you sent to me, thanks, so here they are!

I must go and look up those patent #s too..

[Colin McCubbin]

Interesting..

I've just looked up both patent numbers at the US patent office web-site, and both are for the bowl type of resonator, not the type shown in your picture. I wonder if the cone you have is original or might be a later replacement..?

[Michael Messer]

It is hard to tell from your photos which cone I recommend you get. I still think a cut down 9.5 inch one will do it, but that is just a guess. Can you give us some measurements please - cone diameter, cone depth, sound well diameter, sound well depth?

Because the coverplate is different to a National, you really are going to have to try one and hope for the best. I recommend you get a 'Continental' cone. They are excellent and inexpensive.

Shine On
Michael.

[steverino]

I have a picture of some Schireson innards, taken off eBay a few months ago. I haven't figured out how to post pictures to the web, but will forward it as an attachment to Michael or Colin if you can provide me with an email address. I looked around here but struck out (easy, I'm kinda dense sometimes). I can be reached at stfrsc juno.com (install the @).

The picture nicely shows the bowl shaped Schireson resonator, with a tall biscuit that reaches up from the cone apex to the string plane. I suspect that Jeff's may be this type, though it is difficult to tell the shape of his cone from the straight-on photo.

There is a bit of discussion of Schireson resonators, with some positive comments on their sound, located here:

www.guitarseminars.com/gs/viewtopic.php?t=263&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=schireson&start=40

[Michael Messer]

Thanks Steverino, your offer is very kind, but I know what a Schireson cone looks like. My first exposure to these guitars was in 1979 when Beverly King published her first 'Resophonic Echoes' Scrapbook. It showed a photo of a Schireson cone and the 1932 patent details and drawings. I think Shireson were the first people to be sued for patent infringement by the Dopyera family. The Dopyeras won their case and got all Schiresons manufacturing parts. The Schireson stuff was so bad that John Dopyera sold them to a scrap merchant and that was the end of Schireson resonator guitars!

I have seen a couple of these guitars in working order, but they didn't sound very good.


Schireson resonator

The Schireson bowl shaped cones never worked very well and I am not sure, but it may be possible to fit a cut-down National or Dobro cone into the Hollywood.

Shine On
Michael.

[steverino]

Hi Michael,

The picture I have looks similar to the one you posted except that the base of the biscuit has the same diameter as the saddle. Jeff's cone looks as though it may have had this type of biscuit.

I'm not certain about this, but reading Bob Brozman's book leads me to believe that the lawsuit against Schireson was filed by George Beauchamp of National, likely after John and Rudy Dopyera had left to form Dobro. Three of John Dopyera's patents were part of the evidence presented to the court by Beauchamp. By the time the case was resolved, National and Dobro had merged as National Dobro Corporation and the Schireson assets became the property of that company, controlled of course by the Dopyeras.