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Post by slide496 on Aug 2, 2023 21:30:09 GMT
Well then since rubber bridges was mentioned, here's a youtube video on of someone who substituted a carrot for the body of a clarinet. He starts playing it around 2:01.
Forgive me for being a bit skeptical but looking at the paper you refer to I don't know the vocabulary or have the background,aptitude or interest in physics so as a music forum member beyond hearing what the paper cone you made sounds like for a brief period - and you mention that it warps and doesn't last long anyway - it seems a bit strange.
Harriet
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Post by mitchfit on Aug 2, 2023 22:18:26 GMT
davidppp, trying to work as an intermediary here. think many here are hinting that one actual working model sound clip is worth a thousand oscilloscope captures. this is why the US Patent Office can demand a working model before one gets issued. why pay untold thousand$ of taxpayer funds each year just to house what could be millions of theoretical improvements that were actually just meant to be scam sales promotional only receipts? NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU, only explaining the situation. even a video of playing one could be skewed by a clever audio engineer trying to promote product, so proving the sound clip is a "dry signal" is also a listener variable to consider even with a video/recording of a working model. the guy below is promoting "banjitars", he admits that volume suffers. he admits it sounds different from both parent instruments. he admits the standard guitar has a more versatile sonic ability than the 5 + 1 string banjo. studentofguitar.com/banjitar/he doesn't consider that string gauge increase to boost volume may required greater diaphragm thickness. which may in turn, generate less volume. he makes no references as to how much scale length will change diameter requirements for desired bridge load. he doesn't say that most need to be tuned to standard note increments, but being played at different frets. then there could be an intonation issue if switching to different diameter strings too. and rez players just love changing out the "cables" on their guit to find their desired sound. DOESN'T MEAN YOUR IDEA IS BOGUS, just saying it is a long way from the initial study to the finished product. wish you nothing but success in your venture. if this one works out, ive played a 6 string banjo before. liked the concept very much, but not the sound. didn't buy the used Deering B6. i feel there would be a market for one i did like! i'd buy one. but everybody knows i'm kinda weird, mitchfit
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Post by mitchfit on Aug 3, 2023 2:49:23 GMT
case in point--
i hear a treble boost on the studio recording from the get-go. [could be flesh vs flat pick, but seems like more than that]
perhaps a little reverb also, or a distant mic in a bouncy room.
some medium compression from the beginning to flatten out the volume variations from different strings.
note the bass strings do not sound much like a banjo or guitar. have considerably less volume than treble strings strings. so likely a frequency variation rather than kinetic energy from the greater mass/diameter.
about 1/2 way through the song more delay gets added than the rebounding drum head should be able to account for, even if mixed with a close mic signal. perhaps a little trem or phase modulation of some sort, hard to tell from a lo-fi mono computer speaker. near the very end it gets to be more FX than 6 string banjo...
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Aug 3, 2023 8:37:25 GMT
Mitch - I think you've hit it right on the head.
In this digital age with studios and computers full of gizmos, engineers and producers who know what they are doing with this gear, you seem to be able to get any sound you want.
Problem is if all that stuff is taken away and things are recorded in Sun or Chess on grubby analogue kit with no effects (maybe a little reverb from the basement room or external water tank) would anybody with their media conditioned minds and ears buy it?
My 20 year old Grandson is studying music production at a very well respected college - we have difficulty in communicating musically across the generation gap - when I asked him where's the 'soul' in the music these days he said it's more about the money and the image now, Grandad, but I admit you old guys could really play and squeeze great noises out of the kit available in your day.
Sez it all, don't it?
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Post by stevearcade on Aug 3, 2023 10:01:08 GMT
I can't help but feel that something's been lost in translation here, as I can't seem to make much sense of what's going on... OP is conducting a study into resonators, and analysing their sound-generation methods and timbral properties, verses other strung instruments which use a similar acoustic principle (i.e. banjos)... right? I mean, OK. Fair enough. Enquiring minds and all that... From a sound-design point of view, for experimental purposes, this could be a fun line of enquiry: What happens when you create resonator cones from different materials? Could you make something that sounds new, interesting, maybe useful in experimental music? Imagine you're making the music for something like Dune or The Mandalorian, or a sci-fi video game, and need something that sounds like a string instrument, but not obviously from human history. A tampered-with reso could make for a fun toy in an experimental musician's arsenal. Think John Cage's prepared piano, only the resonator version... could be interesting, albeit bizarre. You can't "better" the sound of a reso (or any instrument, really), as what sounds nice is totally subjective and intertwined with all manner of cultural contexts that are far too complex to get into. There's little accounting in his writings, for the intertwined relationship between the timbre of the resonator and its place in cultural history, and this is something that should always been delicately handled with anything of this nature. The resonator is in many respects the backbone to an entire genre, so to wade in on its "flaws" or "shortcomings" could be rather insulting. Musical instruments, like fashions, recipes, languages, etc, whether they're flawed or not, mean more to people than the function they perform. There's a degree of sacredness around them, regardless of their foibles and imperfections. Having skimmed through the OP's linked case study, from an academic point of view (as this is very much being presented like an academic study), I don't see any sort of hypothesis; intended findings, conclusions, etc... I see the records of a range of tests conducted without a whole lot of context or premise, and that's why I'm confused. Like, OK, you did these tests, but why? What's your end-game, what does any of it matter? I would like to think (hope) that the OP isn't trying to reinvent the wheel and/or isn't trying to suggest Resos are flawed or in need of improvement, more that he's just curious about what they might sound like when experimented with. It just so happens that he's presented it with an unfortunate wording that can be interpreted negatively. Perhaps if he'd taken the tact of: "Hey guys, so I had a cheap of reso lying around and decided to tinker with it. I made some cones from different materials and created a bunch of fun, weird noises, check them out! They're not particularly "resonator" in style, but it's just a bit of fun. I might use them in the future in some experimental music. I'm open to suggestions on other things I could try and make cones out of. Could be a fun project for lazy Sunday afternoons. Cheers" Just my thoughts on this...
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Post by mitchfit on Aug 3, 2023 14:51:13 GMT
think he's doing just fine, but seeking a cure for a problem that currently doesn't exist. would encourage him to follow his ideas to wherever they may go.
teflon was discovered entirely by accident, so every bit of experimentation could lead to an exciting discovery.
starting in the late 1800's, the reso guit driving force was to get more volume from an acoustic guitar. the DoBros had improved the early prototypes to the currently used format in the late 1930's.
with electronic amplification volume is no longer a selling point.
but many still like the resulting sound of the pioneering "cone heads", ensuring a future market.
that is not meant to imply no future improvements are possible.
just know there was over fifty years of experimentation involved to get to the presently used format.
mitchfit
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Post by mrstrellisofnwales on Aug 5, 2023 6:58:07 GMT
Seems to me like an interested and inquisitive student has gone to a tutor who has absolutely no knowledge or interest in resonator guitars and has been given the go ahead to play around with some kit to try and “prove” something and bring a simplified model into a field which is as complex as a moonshot.It doesn’t really count as a real piece of science because the variables are too many to control. All well meaning but ultimately of interest only to the the student. Truth is that there are so many variables in the build and sound of any musical instrument that science will never manage to explain everything and only instrument builders will get anywhere near it. That is craft. The true interface between art and science where a million variables can have an effect and some might produce a change which some people but not all will actually like. But hey, carry on experimenting. That’s how we learn. MrsT ( taught Physics for 35 years)
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