Chicago Harp tone a vocal mic, help needed

[pete1951]

As I only play 1 or 2 harp numbers in a set I no longer bring a dedicated harp amp to gigs. This means I am just playing through the vocal mic and don’t usually have time to change the EQ or Reverb setting.
I am looking for an effects unit that will change my vocal mic (an SM58) plugged into the PA to sound like a Shure Bullet through a cranked Bassman.

There are several videos of boxes that might do, but they seem to start with a harp mic through a harp amp and just make a more extreme distortion.
This would be in line with my vocal mic ,so a different starting point to the videos I have seen

Guitar pedals work ok at low volume,but the ones I’ve tried at gigs feedback too quickly.

Any advice?
Pete

[blueshome1]

Pete the tone is with player, there are clips of Big Walter, Junior wells etc playing through vocal mikes and sounding great.

I know harp players can be anal about their gear from mic to amps to valves etc. but this is like guitarists needing a 20 unit pedal board rather than being able to produce the tone from the guitar and amp alone.
However, most effective and most used to get the sound was a short delay.
(I spoke to Paul Lamb about his gear a while ago and he just plays into whatever Fender amp is available and usually with a bullet mic, but sometimes a vocal mic. He gets that Chicago tone all well as anyone.)

[stevearcade]

The old mics harmonica players used; the Shure (bullet), Electro Voice 630, Astatic JT-30, etc, were the sorts of things used by municipal services like police radios, taxi radios, announcer microphones in public places, etc. They would unscrew from their tabletop stands and could be cupped in the hand, making them ideal, ergonomically. They weren't chosen for their tone per se. It was a matter of needs must. A comfy to hold mic, plugged into the simplest means of amplification at the time (an electric guitar amp). Their tone, whilst iconic, is somewhat a byproduct of necessity and is technically very lo-fi.

Nevertheless, that distinctive distorted harmonica tone is lovely and I would expect it's achievable to an extent with an SM58 (or similar vocal mic) and guitar effects pedals.

I used to play a lot of blues harp in blues bands about 20 years ago, and I still have a Shure Bullet from the 1950s (which I spent a lot of money on). I used to run it through either my own Fender Champion or a spare amp my guitarist had. In truth however, the frequency response of the mic is so narrow, that I can achieve similar results (through a guitar amp) with an SM58, with the treble turned down by a couple of degrees, and the mid boosted by a couple of degrees.

In electric guitar terms, you can get an awful lot out of just a drive and EQ pedal alone (in terms of tone-shaping), so the same should apply to Harmonica. Use the drive pedal to induce distortion and EQ to shape the tone (either pre or post distortion, whichever is more effective in your instance). Boss pedals have always been my go-to for gigging-grade pedals, but they might be a bit pricey to justify, if it's just a couple of tunes you need them for. The Behringer clones of Boss are near indistinguishable and a lot cheaper. They won't be as rugged as the Boss, but they're less expensive and I should imagine they can handle light gigging without problem.

One thing to consider: you'll need to go XLR to unbalanced (mono) Jack (to plug into the effects pedal). Your mic signal is therefore made unbalanced, so proximity to the mixer is a concern (interference/noise). If you're going any length over about 5 metres and/or there are stage lights nearby, you'll want to convert back to balanced. If I were you, I'd get myself a tiny pedal board from Amazon and do the following:

Mic (XLR to Jack) > EQ Pedal > Drive Pedal > DI Box (Jack in/XLR out) > Mixer

To save on the faff, I'd also recommend getting a 'Passive' DI box. They don't need power, so that's one less power supply to worry about (and they tend to be smaller than active DI boxes).

In this way, everything's mounted in one place, you can run your vocal mic through it for the entire show bypassed, and just smash the pedals on for when you rip a harp solo, without any concerns over signal quality and/or noise interference.

Whilst EQ pedals are much of a muchness and pretty self explanatory, I'd recommend researching the drive pedals well, as there are so many options and variables, it can be easy to land on something that overcooks things way too much. Or, look for something that does both EQ and drive/distortion; the amp-emulation pedals, like the old SamsAmp GT2, etc (although they might be more costly than buying two separate budget pedals which will likely achieve very similar results). Regardless of what pedal configuration you settle on, I'd still strongly recommend utilising a DI box after the pedals, to covert the signal back into balanced for the mixer.

[pete1951]

Thanks for the replies , I know that a great player can get great tone through almost anything, I have guitar eq pedal and boost pedal but they don’t work for me.
Lone Wolf make a range of pedals, but they want to sell units and usually recommend a chain of effects.......

I guess an amp modelling pedal followed by an eq pedal ( to control unwanted frequencies) might work, but that’s 2 switches to operate after stopping singing and starting harp, and 2 when switching back again. I’m hoping for a box the does all I want with one touch.
Pete

[stevearcade]

Yeah, the single pedal approach is preferable, isn't it. The SansAmp GT2, whilst old is still one of the best sounding and most highly regarded amp-modellers out there: www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/gt2/. It's a little bit pricey (around £250-270), but it will probably more than likely cover your needs, as it has multiple cab models, drive-ranges and an EQ.

For £20 you could always take a punt on the Behringer Tube Amp Modeller, as judging by the dials and switches, I think it's cloning the SansAmp GT2.

[pete1951]

I often try to mend pedals for friends, but Behringer pedals have always defeated me, I have a broken one at the moment ( along with 2 pedals) that shows no sign of life. Behringer are also very cheaply made ( plastic enclosure rather than metal for example) so I have tended to keep away from them. Will look out for a SansAmp to try.
Pete

[mitchfit]

spoken with ALL of the authority due to one who doesn't even own a harmonica---

all that stevearcade has stated above makes good sense to me. except specific recommendations to products i've never used/seen. may work just fine, just not familiar enough with them to endorse.

here's one option i have used and liked for guit. three zone EQ with valve sweetness in one DI capable box. would suggest replacing valves with 12AU7/ECC82 [lower gain] options. most used old stock vendors are glad to rid themselves of these due to a low demand market. would set input and gain to levels where it just begins to break up. volume of playing will increase distortion level as desired.

one here for 105 pounds:

reverb.com/uk/p/electro-harmonix-english-muffn

hope this helps,
mitchfit

[mitchfit]

below, see owner instructions and advert. states warning that wall warts are nation source mains specific. no mention about valve swapping in paperwork, but i have learned that the first run came with 12AX7 pair. the second run [like mine] came with 12AY7. when i wrote an inquiry email to EH later on, they stated 12AU7 pair was also viable in this circuit.

medias.audiofanzine.com/files/english-muff-n-manual-477571.pdf

[pete1951]

I’ll look out for one, though I would want to try it before buying one.
Pete

I also have a stock of old valves, putting a lower gain value one is usually recommended in harp amps so should work for this unit

Thanks for the advice, I might try a valve swop with some similar unit if it comes my way ( my son-in -law is often buying odd bits of guitar equipment)

[snakehips]

Hi Pete !

I’m not sure what guitar amp you are using but it strikes me that if you want a valve amp tone for your bullet mic / harmonica, AND a good guitar amp, a two channel all-valve guitar amp would give you all you need, in one neat package, with no need for all those pedals that you will never quite get the sound you are after, no matter how much you twiddle all the knobs, knowing full well that all this extra gear is uncool as well as too much hassle !

Some of the late 1940’s, early 1950’s amps had multiple channels (but OK, maybe not much in the way of EQ controls). Some of the early all-valve PA amp heads are great for guitar AND harp.
My friends in Glasgow have done a few small pub gigs using mostly just my circa 1947 Masco MU-17, 3-channel guitar amp, for a vocal mic, a guitar, and occasional guest harp player. The main singer/harp player has his own tiny Gibson amp (vintage version of the Fender Champ) for playing his harp through.
They look way cooler and sound much better than a bunch of pedals that nobody really knows how to use, ha ha !!

[snakehips]

Some pics of my amps.
The Masco amp heads need an amp tech to get them working correctly/safely, and the 4-channel Stromberg-Carlson AU-57 was fab but now needs some work done to it, as I stupidly let a “respected” valve amp maker in Glasgow check it over, and it ended up after being brought back twice, worse than when it was taken in to them !

Attachments:

[pete1951]

What I want to do is have a box in line with my vocal mic that at the press of a button, turns it from a vocal mic to Small valve amp tone. I have several amps (pictures available on request) that give a great harp tone but space (and my aging back) mean that I don’t want another amp to carry. So I am looking for a small box to change the sound.
Pete

I have tried 2 channel amps ( I have 3or 4) but they ( well, mine anyway) doesn’t do what I want. I can’t get the balance between guitar and harp right.

[Pickers Ditch]

Pete, give the Behringer Tube Amp Modeller a try - 20 squids worth of experiment is worth a go and if it's NBG I'll buy it off you at the price you paid for it.
I have used plastic boxed Behringer kit for yonks (gigs where I would not risk my Tech 21 stuff) and as long as you treat them humanely and not like a tantrum stompin' yobbo heavy metal band lead guitarist they are sturdy enough.

PD

[stevearcade]

Jul 27, 2023 19:02:07 GMT pete1951 said:

I often try to mend pedals for friends, but Behringer pedals have always defeated me, I have a broken one at the moment ( along with 2 pedals) that shows no sign of life. Behringer are also very cheaply made ( plastic enclosure rather than metal for example) so I have tended to keep away from them. Will look out for a SansAmp to try.
Pete

Haha! Yeah, I worked in pro-audio/instrument retail in my youth, and have worked in studios and live sound my for almost 20 years. I can completely understand where you're coming from with regards to Behringer's build quality. Some of the stuff is OK(ish), but their guitar pedals are squarely aimed at teenage bedroom players and don't stand up to heavy use. If you remotely suspect that their pedals won't be up to the rigour of your gigging, don't waste your money! You get what you pay for, ultimately.


Some of the suggestions about valve pre-amp boxes (meant for guitars) are good. That's along the same lines as what I'm getting at with my suggestion. For the sake of a pedal/stomp-box, I typically avoid valves, due to their more fragile nature, but that's just me being overly cautious. Mind you, for the price, they're often comparable or more costly that something like the SansAmp GT2, and will need periodic maintenance to replace tubes.

I still advocate a DI box post-effects pedal, unless you can get a pedal that supports a balanced output.

[pete1951]

Thanks again , I will think about the suggestions made.
I am tempted to try and make a single valve preamp with XLR connectors, though it would probably have to have a mains cable, and I was hoping to minimise cables on stage.
Pete