Tried the Fishman Nashville Biscuit Pickup ? Updated

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Has anyone tried the Fishman Nashville Biscuit Pickup ?

I've only seen one or two Youtube videos - and neither seemed to really show off how the pickup sounds particularly well :
Other "noises" are included : singing/harmonica/tambourine, reverb, ghastley amplification, and/or you can hear too much of the guitar acoustically, to know if you are hearing purely just the pickup's actual sound or not.
What I heard was not pleasing BUT I don't believe the videos did the pickup justice.

So, has anyone tried the pickup in their National, National Resophonic (I was told they are now being used in new National Resophonic Resolectrics), or other resonator guitars ??

The cheapest UK price I have found is £189 plus shipping - so it will likely cost around £200 - and that is without a preamp to go with it.

Luckily I have a v good preamp I could try the pickup with.

The biscuit has an ebony cap in the otherwise maple saddle.
Jason Workman at NRP told me they remove the whole saddle & insert their own maple saddles.

Jason said they never really did a lot of installs of Highlander pickups - the demand just wasn't there - for them to consider buying over the Highlander pickup business, when the original owners decided to sell up and retire.

I'm figuring that if no one else has got one and not willing to splash out dough, and risk being disappointed, I am going to "take one for the team" and buy one - and hope for the best.

At best, I hope this pickup will an exact copy of the Highlander pickup, and that the piezo pickup element will be as good as the original Highlander. What would be super cool is if this Fishman Nashville biscuit pickup was EVEN better than the Highlander.
I'll not hold my breath though !!

I believe MM has said he will enquire if he can get a sample sent to him - I hope that goes well !

So, in the meantime, DID anyone try out the Fishman Nashville biscuit pickup on a guitar of theirs or someone else's ??

[snakehips]

OK, I have an update !

NRP sent me two short videos of the Fishman Nashville Biscuit Resonator Pickup, loaded in a NRP Resolectric guitar.

See the links below :



and



Please let me know if you can't access them.

What do you think ??

[Michael Messer]

It sounds like any cheap piezo pickup would in a guitar that has no resonance. And then it’s plugged into a guitar amp which is designed for electric guitars.

I can get these made and retailed for a third of the price Fishman are charging, but I'm not sure that I would want to put my name on them.

Shine On
Michael

[bluesdude]

I hear magnetic pickup in there too,the problems with these video's is a pickup sounds good sitting in your parlor, but get out on a festival stage and it sounds like your using a chain saw! Every pickup sounds better mixed with a mic that's why after so many years I've settled on a mag pickup mixed on stage with a 57. My sound checks take only minutes and as soon as the room fills takes only a slight adjustment.
Check out any video of Hans Theesink, He gets a good sound without a piezo just mag pickup and mic! my 2 cents Canadian,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kenny,,

[Michael Messer]

I have a busy day today, so will continue later or tomorrow. I am sure this thread will go for a while.

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi again !

Agreed.

I just had a wonderfully enjoyable 45min solo spot (support slot) gig on Sunday afternoon, using a ribbon mic for mic’ing up my Nationals and a 12-string low tuned guitar (Fraulini Angelina).
Was great to hear the true sound of a National guitar, in all it’s glory, amplified with a really warm, fat sound.
Even better, was my 12-string guitar, as with the Highlander piezo undersaddle pickup, there is always an imbalance between the wound & unwound strings of each course.

Would love to do more gigs like that.

In my duo/trio, we often have piano (electric digital piano), which is difficult to use with mic’d up guitars, hence why we usually go with pickups in our guitars - but solo ? Gonna use a mic in future !
I actually had my Highlander battery box & cables set up in case I couldn’t get a decent volume level without feedback. I used a small monitor that gave me just enough signal without any feedback issues - so the Highlander pickups were just not needed - and I had a fab gig as a result. Think the audience enjoyed it too, hearing the guitars as they should be heard.

I played 2 Nationals and a 12-string guitars.
The ribbon mic cost less than what it would cost to equip all 3 guitars with quality pickups.

[Michael Messer]

As most forum members are aware, I have always preferred mics over any type of plug-in device for resonator guitars. In most situations I don't have volume problems as long as the people I am playing with are sympathetic to the fact. I have played in all types of venues and on numerous festival stages without plugging in. A resophonic guitar is an acoustic instrument and unlike acoustic guitars that can get away with it, resonator guitars need the air around them and plugging in removes the air. A mixture of both can work well and I sometimes do that, it gives a bit more power and fullness to the lower range.

For most of 40 years I have used Shure SM57s to mic up my guitars on stage and they are absolutely superb at doing that job. They are an industry standard tool and there's a reason for that. For many years I have known about Neumann KM184 mics for stage use with resonator guitars. I first became aware of them from Bob Brozman and then more recently from Gottfried Gfrerer. A few months ago I decided I would get one and see what the fuss is all about and how it performs. It is not a cheap microphone, an SM57 will set you back around £90.00 (GBP), whereas the KM184 is just under £600.00 (GBP). All I can say is that so far I am very happy with the way it performs. The clarity is incredible and as a small diaphragm condenser it is very directional, like a spotlight, which makes it amazing for getting an accurate sound from each part of the guitar. I'm liking it a lot. Yesterday I recorded with it for the first time on an album I am currently working on, and it was excellent. A great all round mic for resophonic guitars. I also know of a few bluegrass Dobro players that use KM184s. Well worth checking out.

A ribbon mic will get a warm sound and of course will sound better than anything plugged in, but they are really best on stage for drum overheads, kick drum, percussion, brass section overheads and of course for electric guitars, which they are commonly used for. I have tried them on stage with resonator guitars and while I do like their smooth warm sound, I don't think they are as good as the two mics mentioned earlier in this post. They are actually quite similar in many ways to the SM57.

Snakehips, you should look at Ear Trumpet Labs mics, I think you would be very happy with one of their mics - www.eartrumpetlabs.com - Their EDWINA mic is an excellent resonator guitar mic.

Shine On
Michael

[Blues Pertti]

Hi everybody,
This and the other two threads about Highlanders have been very interesting. I have Highlander in my FR Triolian and it outperforms my other resos fitted with piezos. I would be glad to have more of those (Highlanders).

For me opening my eyes happened when after one thread here, Ear Trumbet Lab mic came into my sight. I bought Myrtle. Since then I have been so much more relaxed on my gigs. Only one mic for guitars and singing. So much freedom to move around. They seem to be feedback resistant. Of course I haven’t had gigs on very loud environments. Audience has been willing to listen also in a little bit larger halls. How to say it - person who is always very very nervous about his competence - this gives a lot of freedom to stay focused on performance. 😃🎶
Pertti

[twang1]

I've been using a Neumann KM185 to amplify my tricone for the last 12 years with great results. At the time I paid € 850 for it and it was a lot but, considering that I must have played more than 1,000 gigs with it, it's like having paid € 0,80 Euro a gig! Next wednesday I will be recording with it...
The only complaint I have about Neumann is that they don't give you a decent box when you buy the mic...
Frank

[snakehips]

Hi again !

Well, I finally got the Fishman Nashville Biscuit resonator pickup in the post today.

The saddle comes separate from the biscuit - so, I think I could fit my own saddle into the biscuit, and try out the pickup.
If I don’t like it, I could send it back with the original saddle unused/unharmed

Anyway, I post the photos of the pickup system (it doesn’t come with a preamp) so that you can all see how it seems to be constructed, as I haven’t seen any helpful pictures anywhere on the internet.

It seems like a traditional wooden biscuit, with a metal disc underneath, and some sort of piezo element between the biscuit and the metal disc.
The pickup cable has two wires - one soldered to the metal disc (which I’ll assume is Ground), and the live wire goes in between the wooden biscuit and the metal disc, through a small hole in the disc - and is soldered to something just through the hole. I don’t know what the piezo element looks like though as it’s the under the metal disc.

Either way, I can’t think that anything placed between the cone and the biscuit can be a good idea !

Here are the pictures anyway :

Attachments:

[Michael Messer]

They can’t be serious. Looks like it should be returned to sender asap.

I have just received some samples from a maker in China to test that look a lot better than that.

Shine On
Michael

[pete1951]

The cheapest piezo you can get ( often used for cigar box guitars) are a thin brass disc with a layer of piezo sprayed (?) on. This looks like a large one of this type,it will certainly make a noise of some sort. The smaller ones cost about 50p each, so this should be a very inexpensive system!

Pete

[snakehips]

....... and it's not !!!!


I'm gonna try & rig up a set-up with a replacement saddle to test out the sound.
Will try and do a sound comparison with some of my Highlander equipped guitars.
Then, I'll likely send it back for a refund ..... unless for some unkown reason it sounds ace.
Unlikely !!

[Michael Messer]

Charging £190 for this is unbelievable.

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Aye !
Especially without it even coming with a preamp !

I’m most likely to be sending it back !

Currently trying to get the underside of a maple saddle flat to sit n the Fishman biscuit slot, without rocking - and failing miserably !!

Hoping to test the pickup soon.