monton
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 21
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Post by monton on Feb 20, 2021 12:54:14 GMT
Good news it is a Shanghai one, thanks for confirmation Michael I hope these help - if I'm measuring correctly, the action is approximately 1.5mm at the nut, 3mm at the 12th, and 5mm at the bridge. Do I need a new higher nut? Also, it's a right hander that's been changed to a lefty, just for info - not by me though, done in the past
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Post by lexluthier on Feb 20, 2021 23:08:03 GMT
Hi! When 'made' left handed, was the cone just rotated 180 degrees without changing the angle of the string slots? That could make some intresting noises.
Dont be fooled into thinking that where you think the rattle is coming from, actually is where it's happening. Once spent a couple of days with my head hovering over the soundwell of my tricone before realising the noise was coming from the 5th and 6th strings just touching behind the nut. Resonators resonate, everywhere! Anything loose or ill fitting will sympathetically resonate with some note on your fret board and probably feed back into the cone(s).
Chris
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Post by purpleorange on Feb 20, 2021 23:12:06 GMT
The nut won't be the problem if you are still getting the buzz when fretting the notes, I had the opposite issue to you that was caused but the nut - rattling with open strings and not with fretted notes.
The picture of your nut is out of focus but it does look like the string slot for the 4th string is a lot wider than it needs to be.
It is possible that the guitar wasn't setup property after the right to left hand conversion.
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Post by purpleorange on Feb 20, 2021 23:21:56 GMT
Dont be fooled into thinking that where you think the rattle is coming from, actually is where it's happening. Chris I agree, I was convinced my rattle issues were coming from the cone end of the guitar and it took me ages to diagnose as I never thought to check the other end of the guitar. Bicycles and resonators play sonic mind tricks when trying to diagnose unwanted noise issues.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2021 8:20:16 GMT
You have no break angle on the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece. You cannot do anything about this without doing one of two things - the correct way is to have the neck reset and the bodged way is to run the strings under the tailpiece. The bodged method comes with consequences, eventually it will probably destroy the cone. Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 21, 2021 9:54:02 GMT
I am not so pessimistic as Michael, your other thread talked about your action being too low? Is that right? If so , then a taller saddle will give more angle and raise the action, this is not something you should do if you have no experience, but should not be beyond the ability of a good repair person. Pete
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monton
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 21
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Post by monton on Feb 21, 2021 10:08:28 GMT
Yes, indeed there is no angle between the bridge and the tail piece. I'm assuming re-setting the neck is a big job. How annoying! Yes, the action is lower than I thought it should be, so maybe the taller saddle would work. I'm assuming a new nut to match that would be needed. Not knowing who did the work to put the new cone in, I have no idea if it was done by a professional, but by the sounds of it it wasn't.
The strange thing with this is that I didn't notice it until I had tuned it from open E to open D, and then back to open E.
Are there any professional luthiers with resonator skills residing in the halls of these forums? Preferably Somerset way.
Thanks all
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Rattler..
Feb 21, 2021 11:08:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by bonzo on Feb 21, 2021 11:08:25 GMT
Hi Monton, I think I read on the forum recently about different cones being different heights. This might go someway to explaining the lack of break angle and the low action problem you're having. If the new cone you had installed was lower than the one you took out everything would drop down. We're only talking mm's here. With a bit of luck a new higher bridge as mentioned by Pete should do the trick. Personally I think if the nut looks okay I would leave it be, the bridge is the way to go. I'm sure things will be alright in the end, plus you're learning lots about the workings of a reso that will stand you in good stead later! Good luck.
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2021 12:24:04 GMT
Monton,
It was fine in open E because there is more tension in open E than in D. If it's fine in open E and open A, just use those. However, if you want it right, then it will require a neck reset. I understand what Pete has said, but with 3mm at the 12th fret, you can go up to 3.5mm, maybe a touch more, but I don't think that will solve the problem.
Did you install a new cone? What John says is correct, but I don't believe that anything will do what a neck reset will do. That's just how it is. I can't really add anything to what I have said.
Shine On Michael.
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monton
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 21
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Rattler..
Feb 21, 2021 12:33:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by monton on Feb 21, 2021 12:33:20 GMT
Hi again, no, it wasn’t me that installed the cone. I was told it had been done by the chap I bought it off but there wasn’t any more detail other than it’s a Beard cone.
Every day’s a school day!
Cheers
Monton
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 21, 2021 12:38:11 GMT
If it is a Beard National-style cone, the first thing you need to do is get a Continental or a National cone. Beard make the best Dobro cones in the world, but their National-style cones are at the opposite end of the scale.
Good luck with your guitar.
Shine On Michael
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monton
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 21
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Post by monton on Feb 21, 2021 22:40:07 GMT
Thanks, it sounds like I’ve bought myself an education!
I have no idea which of the cones it is. I suspect I’ll have to open her up and do a bit of research and take it from there. If all else fails, I guess it looks good on the wall! You live and you learn
Best wishes
Monton
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Feb 22, 2021 7:51:27 GMT
Monton, don't feel despondent.
I may be sticking my oar in where it's not wanted but here goes..
If it's OK with Pete1951, how about sending a PM to him and discussing the problem and potential solution(s) in detail and privately whilst this bl00dy lockdown is ongoing? He may be able to advise and help now that the question of cone type and height has reared it's head.
Just a suggestion...
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 22, 2021 8:04:52 GMT
I have made/repaired a few and would be happy to advise, Michael may be right, and a neck reset is the only thing that will cure your problem. It’s very hard to be sure of the problem without seeing it but we can try! Pete
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Post by pete1951 on Feb 25, 2021 10:16:27 GMT
You have no break angle on the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece. You cannot do anything about this without doing one of two things - the correct way is to have the neck reset and the bodged way is to run the strings under the tailpiece. The bodged method comes with consequences, eventually it will probably destroy the cone. Shine On Michael A close look at the photo shows a black line under the tailpiece. I spoke to Monton and he confirmed that there was a spacer ( thick hard rubber) under the front of the tailpiece. Hopefully removal will improve break angle, and if lack of pressure on the cone was the problem, cure the rattle. He also plans to put on slightly heavier strings, which could help with the slide/fret rattle on his other thread on the action . Pete
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