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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 14, 2019 15:31:50 GMT
I won't be reading this book. I don't see the point. There is no more to the story of what is known about his life. Fantasy, mythology and spinning a fancy yarn, all have their place, but sadly that is all I can see at the moment. There is a wonderful storytellers' expression..."never let the truth get in the way of telling a good story"
For me all this hype and devil stuff doesn't add anything. In fact it devalues the music because the myth and the legend are becoming more important.
Shine On Michael
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Post by bod on Jun 14, 2019 20:03:20 GMT
I was under the impression that, far from looking to boost the devil myth, Conforth and Wardlow were looking to get the devil myth out of the way so that attention can be given to a more plausible, less excitable picture that emerges from a survey of available literature and their own extensive researches. Having not read their book, I can’t say how well or badly they do the job, but it seems to me a fair enough project.
Granted, Conforth gave hostages to fortune with an overly casual formulation on the radio - but in fairness it was Radio 2, not a Radio 4 or a conference hall. And as Jono’s interrogation of the author revealed, when pressed Conforth has a reasonable enough case to make - not beyond all criticism, but then what is? At the end of the day, it seems this line of argument is just aimed at setting the devil myth to one side because, in their view, although it’s the one thing that “everybody knows” about RJ, there appears to be very little, if any, support for it, and they believe they have a different picture to share.
For my part, I’m getting more likely to read it rather than less - in truth, I’m not actually that interested in Robert Johnson as such (there, I said it - don’t shoot me!) but I’m becoming interested in any light they might be able to shed on this strand of blues history, as distinct from the usual mythology (and in their arguments, gawd help me...)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 21:26:11 GMT
I've seen the Loch Ness Monster! Book out soon.
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Post by davetracey on Jun 16, 2019 18:27:53 GMT
I've always assumed that the selling his soul to the devil story was a myth, not a literal truth. As such, its as true today as it ever was. In many ways, myths are a more honest representative of truth than literal accounts-maybe most of the worlds religions are based on them. It might just depend on what kind of truth is being considered.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 19:46:26 GMT
Playing "devil's advocate" here: I believe people are a lot less religious now than back in the day. Regardless of whatever was / wasn't said, I guess RJ and most other people around at the time believed the devil existed, and probably believed deals with the devil were at least a possibility. Personally, I think the devil got a bad wrap TT
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Jun 23, 2019 8:10:13 GMT
I have finished reading the book. I tried desperately to read the book from the standpoint of someone who had only heard RJs recordings and had never been exposed to the stories, myths, ramblings and general bs surrounding him - a difficult task, believe me. The authors have, in my opinion, made a pretty good fist of producing a biography based on an incredible amount of interviews, records, documents and such going back over the last fifty years - thoroughly debunking the 'sold his soul to the devil' tale along the way. All of their sources and notes are listed at the end of the book which allows the reader to check the authors sources if they wish to do so. It tells the story of a young man from a broken home who only wanted to play guitar, compose songs, play differently to his peers, chase women, drink, play gigs, record and become famous but was eventually cut down in his prime. There is no evidence of dark deals and the like presented in this book - only of a guitarist/musicianer who worked bloody hard to be different and be the best in his chosen profession. Does this sound any bells out there? I'm of an age to have seen perform and met, albeit only briefly, Peter Green and Jimi Hendrix in their heydays and I sometimes really despair at the bs and downright lies that have been disseminated (usually by writers and commentators who weren't even born before 1970) about these guitarists and their true histories which I know about. In the case of Wardlow and Cornforth, even though they were born way after RJ had passed, I think they have done their research thoroughly, dispassionatley and brought together a book that will probably (hopefully?) come to be accepted as the nearest to the truth of RJs life and times.......and no doubt will be discussed ad nauseum just like everything else to do with RJ. It is well worth the read. LaVere - eat your heart out! PD.
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Post by davey on Jun 23, 2019 9:21:32 GMT
I'm reading Ted Gioia's book on Delta Blues, highly recommended, and it's full of actual facts about the multitude of characters who were about at the time. I haven't got to RJ yet.
The Blues emerged at a difficult time: just prior to the great depression;, between World wars one and two; just as people were leaving the land for the City & actually at the start of recorded music. All this and segregation too. No wonder it's all a bit confused. Apart from that, there were at least three Willie Browns and possibly half a dozen Robert Johnsons as it was a really common name.
They'll be faking photographs of him next.
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Post by snakehips on Jun 23, 2019 13:26:19 GMT
Hi there !
I have read the book now - and found it very good over all. It fills in a lot of gaps in what we know about RJ’s life. There s no rehash of the crossroads deal with the devil, no matter how much some negative people are assuming there is, without actually reading the book.
The book doesn’t go into any detail about guitar tunings and such, well, it’s not a guitar book, is it ?!!! (Apart from one song). It does, however, go into a bit of detail about the guitar tuning for Ramblin’ on my Mind. It seems to me that the authors have been heavily influenced / led by Rory Block or similar, to the idea of RJ using a “secret” tuning, that RJ tried to hide from other guitar players. The guitar tuning is mentioned, as being Open F, from 6th to 1st string : CFCACF, played in the key of F.
I’ve always resisted the notion of weird tunings but had yet tried them. So, with a massive dose of scepticism, I tuned a guitar to that tuning, thoroughly expecting to be able to prove the theory wrong. Quite unexpectedly, I found I could play the Ramblin’ tune quite easily and accurately.
I discussed this with my bandmate, Prof Scratchy, who is never wrong on such things, who was VERY sceptical. So, I went around to his house yesterday, where I proceeded to try and persuade him otherwise. We had one guitar in Open E, capoe’d to F, and my National in this secret Open F tuning.
At each stage of the song, we tried to play the part, in each tuning - and it was possible, in both tunings, to make the song the same as It sounds in RJ’s recording. That is, until we got to the descending slide riff at the 12th fret, raking upwards, across the strings. THIS is what changed my mind back to Prof Scratchy’s way of thinking.
The special Open F tuning dispenses with what would be the 4th string, in Open E - that octave note. Up at the 12th fret, in Open F tuning, the root note, is just not there ! RJ clearly hits a descending triplet of notes - B, F, A (all at the 12th fret), which is the 3rd, the root, then the 5th. At the 12th fret, the middle note, the F, is not there. You have to go 4 frets down, or 5 frets up, to find an F.
Apart from that one, far too difficult to play ergonomically, note, though, either tuning seems possible.
So, we came to the conclusions : 1. If you can easily play the tuning in Open E, capo’d up 1 fret, why bother with the fancy/secret tuning ? The hassle of retuning the guitar - and as the treble string need tuned higher - with the G string tuned from G right up to A. Now, you know how easily a G string snaps, so tuning it up to A is gonna increase that chance a lot, I’d think. With the treble strings tuned extra high, and the low strings tuned extra low, keeping the guitar perfectly in tune, all the way to the end of a song is nightmare! 2. The 6th string - In Open F secret tuning, this string seems to be completely redundant - RJ never seems to play that low, and tuned down to C, the string is very flappy and difficult to play in tune. So, he needs to either completely avoid playing that string, so why bother with it ? 3. You can’t play the descending slide riff up at the 12th fret, as the root F note is not there BUT is, in Open E, capo’d up.
So, we feel we have adequately dispelled the myth about RJ using this weird “secret tuning” for Ramblin’ On My Mind.
Once again, I had to bow to Prof Scratchy’s superior knowledge and experience. Never should have bothered thinking I knew better! Ha ha !
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 23, 2019 14:14:05 GMT
The was no secret tuning - that bollox was dispelled decades ago.
Many years ago a friend kindly gave me a book called "Finding Robert Johnson - the secret Devil tuning" .....WHAT THE F***!!!!! There wasn't a word of sense in the book. We know what tunings RJ used, we have known all that for as long as I can remember. The magic is not in the tunings or the notation, which is really not all that complicated. The magic and the artistry of this genius are in the writing, the timing, the phrasing, the rhythm, the voice, and the sum of all those things coming together in a single performance. It has nothing to do with what tuning he was using!
Could there be a secret Devil's tuning? -> GROW UP EVERYBODY!
Shine On Michael.
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Post by snakehips on Jun 23, 2019 14:17:11 GMT
That’s the only part of the book that disappointed me, that they even mentioned that nonsense.
The rest of the book though, we written, in my view, as someone who has actually read the book.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 23, 2019 14:25:59 GMT
I am sure the book is written well. My comments were aimed at anyone who seriously thinks there might be a secret devil's tuning.
After 45 years of listening to RJ speculation, I think I might be a bit jaded and have a short fuse :-)
This morning I listened to a few of Robert's recordings and I was pinned to my seat by the beauty and the power.
Shine On Michael
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Post by creolian on Jun 23, 2019 15:28:19 GMT
Ive always wondered how much of the tuning question might actually be a function of oddball string gauges. Either by intent or necessity, I dont know... I have seen a few older blues players mixing gauges and there are some country musicians well known for it.
Fortunately, "devil tuning" ... along with the evil eye, mojo hand, the loa and papa legba are not taught in music schools...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 7:30:11 GMT
MM, could you explain what this guy on FB means? "Does this silly stuff NOT ever get tiresome for anybody? Two players from 1926 put this silly Johnson fable to bed a great long tome ago. Blind Blake and Sol Hoopi". TT
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 30, 2019 7:52:00 GMT
MM, could you explain what this guy on FB means? "Does this silly stuff NOT ever get tiresome for anybody? Two players from 1926 put this silly Johnson fable to bed a great long tome ago. Blind Blake and Sol Hoopi". TT TT, I can't help you there, but at least he's not talking about the Devil's tuning. Oh....is he saying that Blake was a better picker and Hoopii was a better slider....or something along those lines. I have reached saturation point, because too much of it affects my appreciation of such a beautiful thing. Two recording sessions by an almost undocumented musician that created 29 musical masterpieces. Born in Hazelhurst MS in 1911 and died in Greenwood MS in 1938. What became of Robert's legacy is beyond anything he could have imagined, even in his wildest dreams. Its an amazing thing. Shine On Michael
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