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Post by bumblebee on Apr 29, 2018 16:52:03 GMT
Hi there! I recently welcomed this Valco res’o’glass resonator guitar in nice conditions. As far as I know, even if there’s no wavy peghead and no name on it, I do believe she’s a 1960’s Supro Folkstar (no Airline, no National). I’m asking help to date it. The guitar arrived but the ID plate is missing. Does anyone know if the serial number is printed somewhere else? Neck? Inside body? Thank you in advance. Davide   |
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Post by leeophonic on May 2, 2018 7:30:00 GMT
Without the tag you may be lucky if something is written under the cone on the body, the headstock points to it being a catalog made by Valco 1960,s ish Folkstar.
Fun guitars. Check out what Jeff Lang does with his
Lee
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Post by Mark Makin on May 4, 2018 14:00:10 GMT
Hi Davide
These guitars were known as SUPRO FOLKSTARS and they first appeared around 1964. They were manufactured by Valco and have red bodies with screen holes, drilled hole coverplates and their necks had dot marker fingerboards with an asymmetrical headstock with a Supro logo. Valco also made a black version with different screen holes and coverplate, different neck and branded as an AIRLINE. The white version has screen holes on the back not the front, with 2 National badges, and chicken feet coverplate. This one was called A NATIONAL BLUEGRASS 35.
These were the definitive 1964 versions. They were issued with serial numbers in the Valco Gxxxxx series. These numbers were on small metal plates pinned with two nails on the back of the headstock.
The same instruments were produced for the next 2 years in much the same fashion. From 1965-1967 the serial number was a small foil label stuck with glue to the back of the headstock ( so if the number is missing there would be no nail holes from 1965-68) These serial numbers started with a 1-xxxxx. By 1967, the red Supro FOLKSTAR had been re-named the S444 VAGABOND in the Supro catalogues.
At the beginning of 1968, the foil number labels would start with a 2-xxxxx. Halfway through the year of 1968, the Valco company went into liquidation and all the assets and parts were sold off. Many of these Valco resonators were still in the factory in pieces. In order to create assets for the company sale, they were hastily assembled as guitars. As most of the parts were capable of retrofitting to any of the other parts, the instruments that resulted were combinations of all the "wrong" bits - so you get red bodies with AIRLINe necks, White bodies with Supro necks and the wrong tailpieces etc, ets.
Now - your instrument, in my opinion has the wrong (or let's say 'non-standard') "Tulip shaped" headstock and bar markers. It does, however, have the 1964 pin holes so I think this is an earlier neck but assembled and issued around the period of the factory sale in 1968 and I would probably say that it should be referred to as a "late Valco, Supro VAGABOND".
As Lee suggests, have a look at pictures and videos of Jeff Lang. He has a black version which, like yours, has this same, "non-standard" later neck.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 4, 2018 16:05:50 GMT
I missed this thread. Thanks Mark for an excellent explanation
Shine On
Michael
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Post by bumblebee on May 8, 2018 15:01:27 GMT
Hi Davide These guitars were known as SUPRO FOLKSTARS and they first appeared around 1964. They were manufactured by Valco and have red bodies with screen holes, drilled hole coverplates and their necks had dot marker fingerboards with an asymmetrical headstock with a Supro logo. Valco also made a black version with different screen holes and coverplate, different neck and branded as an AIRLINE. The white version has screen holes on the back not the front, with 2 National badges, and chicken feet coverplate. This one was called A NATIONAL BLUEGRASS 35. These were the definitive 1964 versions. They were issued with serial numbers in the Valco Gxxxxx series. These numbers were on small metal plates pinned with two nails on the back of the headstock. The same instruments were produced for the next 2 years in much the same fashion. From 1965-1967 the serial number was a small foil label stuck with glue to the back of the headstock ( so if the number is missing there would be no nail holes from 1965-68) These serial numbers started with a 1-xxxxx. By 1967, the red Supro FOLKSTAR had been re-named the S444 VAGABOND in the Supro catalogues. At the beginning of 1968, the foil number labels would start with a 2-xxxxx. Halfway through the year of 1968, the Valco company went into liquidation and all the assets and parts were sold off. Many of these Valco resonators were still in the factory in pieces. In order to create assets for the company sale, they were hastily assembled as guitars. As most of the parts were capable of retrofitting to any of the other parts, the instruments that resulted were combinations of all the "wrong" bits - so you get red bodies with AIRLINe necks, White bodies with Supro necks and the wrong tailpieces etc, ets. Now - your instrument, in my opinion has the wrong (or let's say 'non-standard') "Tulip shaped" headstock and bar markers. It does, however, have the 1964 pin holes so I think this is an earlier neck but assembled and issued around the period of the factory sale in 1968 and I would probably say that it should be referred to as a "late Valco, Supro VAGABOND". As Lee suggests, have a look at pictures and videos of Jeff Lang. He has a black version which, like yours, has this same, "non-standard" later neck. |
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Post by bumblebee on May 8, 2018 15:34:34 GMT
Hi Mark, thanks so much for your reply, I know the age of my guitars and, with metal plate missing, I was curious for the last arrived. It remains a mistery why three different headstock shape, some with logo some without, why different necks, some with binding some without, different fret markers, Supro and Airline bodies with screen holes in front and National in the back...what a mess...luckily, mine looks aged but nice...and sounds great!!!
Thanks again
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Post by bumblebee on May 8, 2018 21:20:34 GMT
I missed this thread. Thanks Mark for an excellent explanation Shine On Michael |
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Post by bumblebee on May 8, 2018 21:46:40 GMT
Hi Michael, thanks to Mark I have your attention...and I take this opportunity for a question straight to you, if you allow me. I love vintage guitars and I'm curious about their story.
I casually saw your fb image pic. About the guitar, you say she's a 1952 Supro Ozark (branded Oahu). Lovely! I own the same guitar, but four years ago I welcomed her as a 1953 Oahu Ozark. Only later, I've seen pics of her branded Supro and National...and I decided to investigate....seems to be the same messy story of the Folkstar!
I read something but I would like your opinion. Do you agree with the fact that, again, it's all Valco stuff assembled and then sold under different brands?
Thank you in advance.
Davide
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Post by bumblebee on May 9, 2018 12:07:38 GMT
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Post by bumblebee on May 9, 2018 12:18:03 GMT
Hi guys, I know I'm boring, and for this reason I apologize in advance. During the neck setting I asked the luthier to open the guitar. As you can see, at the bottom of the cone is impressed "NAT'L RESO GTRS INC. U.S.A. 93401". Just numbers, no prefix letter. Does that number has something to do with the guitar serial number?
Thanks again.
Davide
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Post by resotonic on May 9, 2018 20:23:36 GMT
It is the postal code for the National Resophonic shop in California...
Maybe the biscuit is a replacement, not as old as the cone.
My '65 Bluegrass 35 does not have any words impressed into the biscuit.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 9, 2018 20:30:56 GMT
Yes, it has nothing to do with the serial number of the guitar. No connection.
Shine On
Michael
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