just shamlessly boasting

[mitchfit]

these are likely protos for the "1S" PUPs, aka "HiA" from the 70's. see description in below advert.

always hear about the lucky sort who stumble on a sweet score, at a sweet price. it's my turn...

i have a single coil sized HiA installed in the bridge position of an old mahogany stella acoustic
that i love the sound of. i scored it at union grove music, a guitar store in los gatos, ca in mid
'70's, likely they stocked them due to the start out pricing of a [semi-local] Bartolini mfg company
in san luis obispo, ca.

don't possess the tech savvy to explain the sonic differences between a PUP that senses only the
vertical string vibration [toward, away from guitar], as opposed to perpendicular [right to left
as viewed from guitar] but it is indeed sonically different.

have just sent seller notice of intent to buy. hope i'm at the head of the line. pls see:

www.tdpri.com/classifieds/price-drop-bartolini-hi-a-single-coil-humbucker-size-pickups.3438/

wish me luck on this'n,
mitchfit

[creolian]

Reminds of a popular saying here in the south ; Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn...
...just kidding.

I read the description and those look like some interesting pups... I don't know if I can go for the horizontal vertical theory being the reason they sound good but i bet they do.

An interesting experiment would be to see how they react to a rectangular pronged tuning fork. That would certainly tell if there is a difference as the fork only vibrates back and forth where a guitar string might not be so linear direction wise depending on how it's picked, plucked etc. To me it sounds like they were trying to achieve what would be a mechanical phase cancellation.

Bartolini is a quality pup regardless. I have a friend here who plays harp guitar and has Barto pups.  His is a custom Fan fret Novax harp guitar and it sounds awesome. ( Philip DeGruy, monster player, studied with Lenny breau, gives Steve Vai lessons, check him out... ).  


Nothing not to boast about... Nothing like some GAS gratification. Hope you make a good score that provides sonic as well as pecuniary pleasure.

All best and GOOD LUCK!

Jeff

P.s. last time I found an acorn, Boubon street was paved with oyster shells but I'm still hoping one day to find a vintage National I can afford...

[mitchfit]

"Reminds of a popular saying here in the south ; Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn...
...just kidding. "

that reminds me of a saying my dear ole pappy used to address me with when my behavior had gone beyond
his recommended standard operating procedures. to wit:

"when you've got luck, s**t will do for brains"

i know he had some sort of hidden message for me in there, just not cure what it was. :^)

just checked advert status-- no response from seller yet.

..."those look like some interesting pups"...

just checked the custom "fan fret" Novax out in cyberdom.

~now those do look interesting~

assume fret angling is for intonation, but coupled with reverse angle of bridge it seems extreme. does
this result in pitch correct sounding chords across the neck? if so, with what diameter strings?

still hoping on the PUP's deal,
mitchfit

[creolian]

I've been luckier than I would have ever asked for although it still hurts when I think of all the times I've tried to break the laws of physics... or visa versa ;-O

You are correct in your assumption regarding the fan fret idea. According to Ralph Novak's disciples it does work but I'd be guessing about string gauges. Phil DG is constantly tweaking his tuning for whatever key he's playing in and hears pitch in ways I can't... One thing certain, you need size XXXL hands to play One. I did a bit of recording of him and those Bartolini pickups have what id call a nice clear water sound. Articulate like Nashville session players used to get.

novaxguitars.com/info/concept.html

here's hoping them pups is meant to be... for you ! If I may ask, what are you planning to use them on ?

Jeff

[mitchfit]

seller contacted itself and the USPS money is in my sweaty little hand as i type this.

i'm gonna try them on an old [december 2001] ibanez AG 75, a gibson ES 175 clone. this
guitar is almost usable alone as an acoustic but is dark/muddy [jazz box] sounding with
OEM PUP's.

it does make the "Circus Maximus" WIND [song] rich harmonic overtones well with a single
ended amplifier. but even so it is a one trick pony...

song released prior to Jerry Jeff Walker joining them, even though he is on the album:



as the HiA design was devised to approximate acoustic signal more closely than other
magnetic sensor offerings, thought i'd try them out.

read through the attached link you posted, and after many restarts to process info i
actually did learn A LOT. but still not totally understanding the fan fret application
and extreme E-to-E string length variation plausibility. would guess one would need to
use strings within a narrow diameter manufacturer recommended window to pull this off.

but that ~is~ a guess.

at some points it was obviously beyond my under trained status/comprehension.

below is Bartolini's explanation of toward-from, right-left string vibration concept.
lucky for me they have dumbed it down to my level of understanding:



How does string motion affect the sound?

Modified on: Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 9:41 PM

These notes were in the last 3 pages of the old "brown catalog" first printed about 1982.

When the pick releases the string it causes two ripples to move along the string, one toward the bridge and the other toward the nut or fret.

The ripples are reflected from the nearest fixed end of the string then travel along the string to the opposite fixed end where they are reflected again.

Viewed along the string the motion is an elliptical path that changes in orientation as its amplitude decays. The complex motion is equivalent to a sum of harmonics that varies during the attack and decay of a note.

For example, the fundamental of the note is at 100Hz; its harmonics occur at multiples of that frequency. The fundamental of the octave is at 200Hz, twice the frequency of the lower note.

Every harmonic of the octave agrees with every other harmonic of the lower note.
The fundamental of the fifth above the note is at 150Hz, 3/2 the frequency of the lower note.
Every other harmonic of the fifth agrees with every third harmonic of the lower note.
The small circles show the harmonics in agreement.

In acoustic instruments the string motion is coupled to the soundboard by the bridge.

Only those components of the string motion that can move the bridge up and down will be amplified (because the bridge cannot move sideways - Figure 3).
This lack of symmetry in the coupling of string to the soundboard contributes strongly to the complex tone quality of plucked acoustic instruments.
Our Hi-A label was derived from “high asymmetry" and the ability of our polyphonic designs to sense string motion in the same way as the bridge of an acoustic guitar.

The resonances of the acoustic body also contribute to the tone quality of the instrument by enhancing some of the harmonics of each note

mitchfit

PS-- let the attached song play through to the computer selected next song. tasty. both times i played it the next song in
que was "It's a Beautifull Day's" white bird. blast from the past for me.

[Deleted]

Great band--amazed I haven't heard them before.

[Stevie]

I'm not convinced of the Bartolini reasoning here.

It does sound a little like having an idea and then trying to give it some creedence? If you play a first harmonic, the string vibrates in two even halves. They seem to be stating that there are standing waves being set up? Wouldn't such standing waves prevent the harmonic from ringing out sweet and clear? It doesn't matter where you pluck the string, you still get the harmonic you set out to play with two halves vibrating. Any supposed standing waves would travel through the point of no vibration on harmonics? Trouble is, I don't know enough about it to hold forth on the subject (thankfully!) and I'm probably missing the obvious.

I would just like to observe that by their reasoning of the necessity to move the bridge / saddle(s) up and down to create sound (because the bridge cannot move sideways?) rather implies that a tea chest bass should be almost completely silent. Clearly there's more going on here than meets the eye /ear.

I can understand the desire to liven up a woolly sounding transducer because I would like a Charlie Christian pick up to replace the hummer on my Heritage archtop guitar, and therefore I'm interested to see how you get along MF.


e&oe...

[mitchfit]

Stevie,

dunno enough to say you or Bartolini are correct. just know the single coil sized HiA in the above mentioned
Stella generates a noticeably more acoustic sounding signal compared to other PUP designs mounted to the sound
board.

am hoping these will have the same effect with the signal for the Ibanez.

if not, plan "B" is to install a set of bridge/neck kent armstrong "stealth" P 90's i scored a while back to
be used at reduced signal on guit's volume pots to prevent feedback. a tall order with a hollow body guitar
as they are hard to keep below a squealing banshee amplified tone with other boxes i have played in the past.

wish me luck, time will tell.
mitchfit

[creolian]

First, congratulations on the score ! Your enthusiasm is contagious and sometimes this crotchety old squirrel needs a jumpstart. Thanks.

After reading up a bit on the HiA it seems like just as in microphone design the pickup has its magnetic fields focused on the sound you want and not the extraneous garbage. Sort of like a directional microphone that uses more than one capsule... Just Like my one of my shotgun mics, the sanken CS 3e.

Another interesting experiment with a guitar (solid or box guitar) is to touch the headstock to the side of a piano or a drum while playing. If youve never done it, I guarantee it will blow your mind All guitars are resonators of a sort, this really illustrates the concept.

I really don't know what goes on with the fan fret design but I can relate to Ralph Novak's concept of six one string guitars. I met him at the NAMM show about twenty years ago and he's a guitar design adventurer along with being a super craftsman. I only mentioned the guitar in that if Bartolinis are good enough for him...

Enjoy, all best,

Jeff

[Pickers Ditch]

Dec 1, 2017 17:05:24 GMT creolian said:

Another interesting experiment with a guitar (solid or box guitar) is to touch the headstock to the side of a piano or a drum while playing. If youve never done it, I guarantee it will blow your mind All guitars are resonators of a sort, this really illustrates the concept.
Jeff

Hah! In the olden days when my Dad used to unplug my bass when I was practising in my bedroom I resorted to pushing the bass headstock against a wonderful solid mahogany wardrobe in my room instead.
It sounded fantastic but I could never replicate that sound on stage.
BTW, he still shouted at me to "TURN IT DOWN!" even though I was only using the wardrobe.

Happy daze.

[mitchfit]

stumbled on this today:

www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bartolini-Hi-A-CREAM-Humbucker-Pickup-Set-RARE-/122986016132

agree with the worth of the design.

can't agree with value.

mitchfit