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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 17:58:56 GMT
Hi, all. I'm new here. I just bought a 1935 National Duolian (yesterday), SN 3035. Haven't even had time to restring it. I bought it from a woman who said it was her father's, and that it was last played when she was in high school. This gal was 60-something, so that'll give a clue. The neck is dead-on straight. No gaps at the heel. Lots of wear on the back of the neck. Possibly the original case; it's unmarked, and very fragile. The guitar is essentially original (tuners, cone, bridge, etc.), with one exception: it was painted silver-gray at some point. Owner has always remembered the guitar as-is.      Questions: -- It came with what looks like a nut extension, but it sorta looks home-made. Any commercial sources of these specific to the Duolian? -- The action is pretty darn low, even with just 4 ancient strings. It doesn't fret-out at all with those few strings. I don't know if string gauge differences tend to compress the cone, or just bend the neck like a regular guitar. Recommend a string gauge? EDIT: (ooops. I see there's a recent forum topic about string gauges...) -- I know a real blues man don't care about no stinking paint. Leave as is? I'm not terribly concerned about "collector's value," since I bought it to play... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 20:43:14 GMT
I guess maybe I'm at the wrong place to ask questions. One more try... I put a new set of strings on: medium, .13's, since I didn't want to stress the cone too much. But the bridge is really deeply notched, and the three lowest wound strings don't even bottom in the notches (see photo.)  Even though the upper strings are very close to the cover, they don't fret-out (or hit it.) So I guess that was how it was played... The tensioned angle of the tailpiece-bridge-nut is really shallow. If I use a nut extension for slide, it might even pull the strings from their seat on the bridge. Of course, a new bridge would work.. or fill in the notches somewhat with wood. Any thoughts? I could use a light gauge for the low strings, but that won't remedy the setup for slide.... |
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Post by andys on Oct 30, 2008 21:18:00 GMT
I dont think you are in the wrong place, I reckon folk are going to jump in soon.
I know very little about old Nationals myself, but there are many on here who will be able to help
What I do know is that that is a great looking guitar with what seems like a great histroy behind it.
IMO that bridge looks like it needs replacing, and the fact that the strings are very low, could mean that the cone has been compressed over time.
The only piece of advice I can give you is please, please, please do not take it to an ordinary guitar shop, or guitar repairer to have anything done to it. Please, if you choose to have it repaired, take it to someone who knows about how to repair resonators and specifically someone who knows about how to repair old Nationals
Someone on this site will be able to recommend someone, who can sort out this lovely old guitar and make it playable and sounding good again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 22:44:57 GMT
Thanks, andys.
Re: finding a luthier knowledgeable about Nationals. That's great advice (I'm in NE Ohio, USA, if anyone has a recommendation.)
I don't think the cone is compressed badly. Given the depth of the notches in the bridge, it seems that a new bridge would make a world of difference.
(Does the whole biscuit need to be replaced? Or can a new saddle be fitted in the biscuit?)
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 30, 2008 23:05:23 GMT
Hi Gmoon,
Welcome to our forum. My apologies for not responding sooner, but sometimes a thread just slips through the net and I don't see it for a while. I try to keep up with everything on here, but occasionally I do miss one.
It looks like a very nice Duolian that is just in need of a set-up.
Those bridge slots are not great. You should replace the bridge with a piece of maple and re-cut the slots to the proper height and so they fit the strings properly.
Your question about a nut raiser - you should be able to find one on eBay. They are not designed specifically for Duolians, just acoustic guitar nut raisers. Try and find an LRC KING nut raiser, they were nicely made and will do the job.
The paint finish looks interesting. It is hard to tell from the photo, but it looks very 'right' and well done.
If you cannot do the work yourself, you must take it to a good repairer that understands old Nationals.
I think you have bought a very nice and probably great sounding guitar. From looking at the pictures I can tell this guitar is probably all original (apart from the paint) and has been well looked after. I am sure the cone is perfect. The guitar just needs a bit of attention.
Keep in touch
Shine On
Michael.
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markm
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Post by markm on Oct 31, 2008 1:38:43 GMT
Without doubt one of the best National repairmen in the US is Marc Schoenberger. Here's his website: www.roots66.com/ngr/He did some work on my '36 Duolian a few years back, and it came back as a true player. I can't say enough good things about the quality of his work. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 4:08:07 GMT
markm: Thanks, a first-hand recommendation is always best... Michael-- I see now this should have been posted in "notecannons." Sorry--feel free to move the thread... Thanks so much for your comments (especially re: the cone.) Yes, the guitar itself really has no structural issues. Don't know about it's early lineage, but it's been an "under the bed" special for quite some time. I've done a bit of work on other guitars (cutting a new nut, some minor archtop structural repairs), but will give it serious thought before tackling it myself... Another question, for anyone: The nut on this guitar seems to have an additional groove cut between the two top strings (you can barely see it in the photo of the peg head.) Could the high string been setup as drone, or something? Maybe for someone used to 5-string banjo? (except there's not corresponding notch on the bridge..)
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 31, 2008 9:38:51 GMT
Hi Gmoon, It is difficult without seeing the guitar, but in my opinion if you are able to work on guitars, you should do it yourself. If the cone is in good condition, which it probably is - don't let anybody tell you it needs a new cone. There has been a recent thread about this very subject - michaelmesser.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=tin&action=display&thread=1718Keep us posted with your progress Shine On Michael. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 13:59:42 GMT
Michael, you've a wonderful resource here. While I haven't addressed the setup issues, the guitar is playable. But it sounds somewhat dull. I found an excellent thread here about stripping a National using alcohol. So I tried it on a small portion of the back. Well, the "trailer park mojo" paint comes right off, exposing a nice golden duco. And the alcohol doesn't seem to effect the duco finish at all. There's at least three coats of paint over the duco (and maybe more on the front.) Here's the results of one evening sitting watching TV (stay tuned for more....)   |
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 3, 2008 15:29:26 GMT
Nice work Gmoon! The duco finish looks much better than the trailer park silver. It was probably painted because the owner wanted a shiny National like a Style O.
I look forward to seeing more duco.....
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2008 19:24:54 GMT
Long time gone, but here are new photos of the restoration. 99.5% of the brush-painted coats are gone, leaving only the original Duco, and wear. There's plenty of wear, of course, but that's OK. I'm really pleased with the results. And the guitar sounds much better than before (there were at least three coats of paint removed.) The bridge saddle is the next project...     |
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Post by Colin McCubbin on Dec 20, 2008 20:48:53 GMT
Hey! Nice guitar! The 14 fret neck with slotted headstock is a fairly rare Duolian! Yes, Marc Schoenberger is the guy for Nationals in the USA, he is in Calf just down the road from National Resophonic's factory, and he used to share a work bench with Don Young (Nat reso's boss) at OMI many years ago. Although it sounds like your guitar is being well looked after by yourself, and won't need Marc's TLC, if you ever need any serious work done, re-fret, neck straightening etc, then please only refer the work to him. And to show that I 'practice what I preach' Marc is currently working on what is I think about the 31st National he has set up from the Notecannons collection.  You can contact him at nationalguitarrepair.com |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2008 3:46:54 GMT
Thank you, Colin. I really appreciate the information--any I can get.
Re: Marc Schoenberger and nationalguitarrepair.com-- although I'm a little frightened about letting this old girl travel, some of the tales told on his forum about botched repairs are even more scary... If it's out of my league (and many repairs are) I'll follow your advice.
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Post by steadyrollinman on Dec 22, 2008 17:20:30 GMT
Hi Gmoon,
Read your postings and the various responses with great interest, especially as I have recently acquired a 1936 Duolian 14 fretter myself. It was bought on ebay uk, and when collected I thought I'd hit bad luck as the neck was bowed like a banana and was unplayable.
The good news: I took it to Dave King (National Resophonic USA official repair man here in the UK) Dave completely dismantled the whole guitar down at his new state of the art workshop, including the 3 piece neck, straightened it, and then re-assembled it using all the original bits including the lovely rosewood fingerboard,original frets, cone biscuit and bridge. The result now is an absolutely lovely sounding and very playable original duolian.
I have great respect for all the old sweats on this forum; they all know much more than me about these guitars, but If you're concerned at sending your guitar far away, you might want to give Dave a ring, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Send me a private message if you want Dave's details.
Good luck.
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 4:26:15 GMT
Thanks, Chris--I'm actually in the US, so Marc Schoenberger is closer...although still 2000 miles away  . |
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