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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2008 19:57:28 GMT
Hi Michael, First of all, let me thank and congratulate you for this fantastic website. When I started thinking about getting a resonator a couple weeks back, I began searching the internet for information which could help me make the right choice, and it was not until last night, that I came across your page, that I have found REALLY useful information. Now that I spent yesterday almost all night reading through your site, I can't believe that not one single page of the ones I had checked until now even mentions the difference between National-style and Dobro-style. Really Michael, many thanks for this site, I assure you many of us out there need it. As mentioned at the beginning, I have decided to get a resonator. You can't imagine all the doubts I have, and all I would like to ask, but I don't want to abuse, so I will try to summarize the basics: PLAYER: I have only been playing the guitar for a year and a half, and although I am proud of all my progress from scratch, I still place myself in the beginner rank. I have a classical guitar and an electric guitar. Play them both. SOUND SEEKED: Mark Knopfler, if I must choose to ilustrate. (Guess that settles me in the National-style side). GUITAR LOOKS: It seems that most National-style tend to be metal box. Fact is, as opposed (I think) to many people, I myself prefer the looks of wooden box resonators (of course, it depends, but out of the resonators you see around, a sunburst style is the one I usually feel most appealed to). So, what about wooden box national-styles? Do you recommend them just as any? Are they less "metallic-sounding"? In any case, if I must choose, I certainly prefer better-sounding than better-looking, no doubt there. (But hey!, if I can have it all...  ) BUYING INTENTIONS: Of course, I'm looking for a model suited to introduce me in the resonator world, but my idea was to buy a guitar I will still be happy with in a couple of years, when I have gained experience. I don't mind if this implies spending some more money. Do you think it's worth it, or would you recommend to buy only a "beginner model" and then go for a more expensive and "professional" after having gained experience? So, with this picture in front of you, I would very, very much appreciate the recommendations of the experts. All help an orientation is more than welcome. Thanks again! |
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 28, 2008 10:56:21 GMT
Hi Demian, Welcome to our forum and to the wonderful world of resonator guitars Thank you for your kind comments about the website and forum. The forum now contains so much useful information on the subject that it can be hard to find. Your message is very clear, but you left out one important detail before I or anyone can advise you. How much are you prepared to spend on buying a resonator guitar? The Mark Knopfler guitar is a brass-bodied National Style O from the mid 1930s. I look forward to hearing from you, Shine On Michael. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 18:53:49 GMT
Hello MM, Actually it all depends  . I was moving in a wide range of maybe 300-600 EUR (I'm from Spain, I believe that makes around 240-480 GBP). I consider that a reasonable spending for a decent beginner guitar (but then again, I may be wrong), but perhaps I would be willing to spend more, if the buy is worth it. In fact, the last point in my post was pretty much focused on obtaining some advice on this. I don't really want to set a limit, because, as I said, it all depends, but, to set a reference, lets say a maximum of 700-800 EUR (560-640 GBP), and if I was convinced that spending all this money makes sense for someone who is just starting. Hope this helps to help me  |
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 29, 2008 13:43:31 GMT
Hi Demian, Thank you for your reply. If you had stated that your budget was bigger, I would have recommended you to buy a National Reso-Phonic, Fine Resophonic, or 1930s vintage National. However, as your budget is in a different price range to those brands I have to become a salesman (an honest salesman, not a cowboy) and recommend my own Michael Messer MM resonator guitars. I truly believe that you cannot buy a better budget priced resonator guitar than these. That was my whole reason for starting the company and creating these guitars. Rather than me bang on about them – go to the thread on this forum, check out my website, and trawl around the Internet for other forums discussing Michael Messer MM guitars. Here are the links: michaelmesser.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=advertizing&action=display&thread=1379&page=1www.michaelmesser.co.uk/MICHAEL%20MESSER%20RESONATOR%20GUITARS.htm You could also ask people on this forum who already own MM guitars for their opinions. The whole point of these guitars is to get a REAL 1930s style resonator guitar into your hands at an affordable price, which I believe I have achieved. In addition: I do hope people don't think that I now use this forum just to promote my guitars. I put a lot of time into reading all posts and answering questions on all subjects that get discussed here. When it comes to budget priced National style resonator guitars between 300 and 700 pounds, I can really only recommend my own MM guitars, Busker and Republic, as they are the only ones worth discussing. At the present time, when it comes to metal bodied single cone National style guitars, I do believe my MMs are the best available. Shine On Michael. |
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Post by andys on Oct 30, 2008 17:02:28 GMT
Michael, you dont need to promote your guitars, players who own them like us will happily do that for you.
Demian; I have just bought a MM Blues and it is superb. If you are in the market for a metal bodied resonator, with great tone, and playbility, at a reasonable price, you cant go wrong with one of these. I bought the 14 fret model as I like using a capo sometimes, and I really cant praise it enough. It is not only loud and powerful, but has talents that think you until recently only found on much more expensive resonator guitars. These guitars and the others that Busker have in their range, have raised the bar in terms of getting great sounding guitars into our hands. Heck, theres pro musicians out there using these as their main instruments.
IMO a MM guitar will be the best use of your money if you want a good sounding and playing metal bodied resonator guitar.
I'm off now to play mine some more.
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Post by clarke111 on Oct 30, 2008 17:30:51 GMT
I think andy has got it spot on there. Michael has created a great product. I got my MM Blues a couple of weeks ago and I can't put it down. I also have a Busker square neck tri cone which is equally good. The guitars look, sound and feel amazing - to me they sound like they are worth more. But the biggest factor for me is the 'fun' factor - you just have to play these guitars. I have found myself sitting playing when usually I wouldn't have picked up a instrument, they just have a 'un-put-downable-ness' (Don't think you'll find that in a dictionary) that I have never experienced in another guitar.
I know just where you are coming from Demian as a few months ago I was looking to buy my first reso, now I'm absolutely hooked.
The guys have made a great instrument and if you do decide to go for one then you will not be dissapointed.
Of course if you want a wooden dobro style guitar then you will need to look elsewhere, I have heard that the Paul Beard (Goldtone) Dobro's a good, but I haven't played one so can't comment, I'm sure there are others o the site who would happily advise you. Its worth remembering the Knofler played a brass (metal) bodied guitar, and although your budget may not stretch to a real 1930's national (mine certainy doesn't!!) This is exactly the feel that Michael was going for so uyou won't be to far off with an MM guitar.
Good look and enjoy!
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2008 11:27:14 GMT
First of all, thank you andys and clarke111 for your feedback.
Now, to keep you posted, I have bought a MM Blues which I just received yesterday from Busker (as you can see Michael, I don't question the intentions of your advice are honest).
But I have to admit that I was a bit disappointed. This is not to judge the guitar, as I am way too unexperienced to do so. So let me explain myself. After tuning the guitar I tried playing the intro of Knopfler's famous "Romeo & Julliet" (the only "resonator song" I know), and to my surprise, it sounded terrible! The sound was very irregular and unclear, and I missed that involving metallic tone (or at least it sounded kind of strange). Actually, playing the song in my much cheaper classical guitar sounds way better than playing it in an actual resonator.
I have seen that the strings are very much harder, and I mean VERY much harder, than in my classical guitar. I am absolutely unable to do a capo up to the 5th string with my index finger, and make it sound clean. In fact, I was so surprised of how hard the strings are, that I put a live video to see if Knopfler actually played it with his bare fingers, or if he used any aid. And yes, he plays it with his bare fingers. As it stands, I find my self absolutely incapable of achieving a similar sound. I am assuming it's all due to my unexperienced, and that I will just have to learn to play this kind of guitar. But I am worried that there might be some missadjustment in the guitar.
Can you please advice? Has anyone experienced this feeling himself?
Thank you.
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 19, 2008 14:22:34 GMT
Hi demain,
Thank you for buying a Michael Messer BLUES guitar.
I have read your mesage and am concerned that you are not happy with your MM BLUES guitar. At the end of the day, if you are not happy and are prepared to pay the postage, you can return the guitar to us and get a refund. So until you are sure, keep all packaging and try not to mark it.
MM guitars are set up with a string height (action) to the same specifications as the leading resonator manufacturers use. This is measured at the 12th fret and is 3mm on the bass side and 2.5mm on the treble side. The guitars are strung with Michael Messer National Strings by Newtone - gauged 13/17/26/36/46/56. In the world of resonator guitars, this is an acceptable and pretty much standard way of setting up & stringing a new guitar. It makes it usable for both slide & regular fretting. Having said that, your guitar was set up with a slightly lower action because you were concerned about string height and the fact that you have been playing classical nylon strung instruments. So your guitar is approx 2.8mm on the bass and 2.3mm on the treble.
My personal preference is actually to have a higher action for very clean slide work. I am still able to fret the guitar with that set up.
I have been playing resonator guitars for over thirty years and when I play a regular acoustic or classical guitars with light strings I experience the opposite problem to yours - I am too heavy-handed and tend to over-play.
Having said all that, there is no reason whatsoever why you can't fit lighter strings to your guitar. I would not recommend going lighter than 12 to 54. There are no rules, fit what you feel comfortable with. My good friend and leading National guitar authority, Mark Makin, likes to use 12 to 54s on his Nationals as he does not like heavy strings. However, Mark recently took delivery of two MM guitars (BLUES & LIGHTNING) both of which were strung with our 13 to 56s and Mark is happy with them. He plays mostly in regular tuning without fingerpicks.
Regarding the tone of the guitar; Mark Knopfler plays a 1930s brass-bodied 14 fret Style O National guitar, which does have a different tone to a steel bodied instrument. (The MM LIGHTNING is closer to that sound than the BLUES). Another consideration is that no matter where or when you hear Mark Knopfler's guitar (unless you are in the same room), whether it is on a CD or a live recording, you are hearing it processed through the best microphones and audio equipment that money can buy. Having said all that, a steel bodied MM BLUES does sound right to my ears when Romeo & Juliet is played on it. I just had a go!
To summerize; I think you are not used to playing these kind of guitars and going from a light strung classical to a medium strung resonator will take a bit of time to get comfortable with. I have no problems making clean barre chords at the fifth fret, but I have been playing resonators for most of my life.
I hope my post has been informative and helped you to understand your guitar and how different it is to a classical guitar. If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask. And as I said at the beginning of my post; if you decide you want a refund, just return the guitar to us and we will refund your money.
In addition - I do not think your guitar has any misadjustments. I just spoke with Robin and he assured me that your MM BLUES is an A1 guitar with a great feel and set-up.
Best wishes & Shine On,
Michael.
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Post by andys on Nov 19, 2008 14:56:12 GMT
Demian,
I am surprised at this because my MM Blues sounds great in standard tuning as well as in open ones. Mind you I must stress that it does not sound like Mark Knopfler. And more to the point nor do I!!
Remember also that whereas Mark Knopfler is a great player with his own individual style, the tone on Romeo and Juliet. as well as all the other studio Dire Straits songs, was recorded on some very advanced studio equipment and was probably recorded and mixed through some expensive outboard gear. I would think that the MK resonator sound is at least fed through a compressor, and maybe something else.
I also should say that although I like some of Mark Knopflers work, I have to say that his style of playing comes through on any guitar he plays, whether it is a 30s National, a 50s Strat through a Twin reverb, or a Les Paul through a Marshall. The phrase "its all in the fingers" doesnt hold true all the time, but if theres one case that it does, its with Mark Knopfler. Sometimes I wish that his tone wasnt as recognisable even. If I tried to play like him, it would not sound anything like him. Trying to get a certain one sound out of a resonator, is a tall order, its like me with my Telecasters trying to sound like Springsteen, Wilko Johnson or Joe Strummer.
As far as I know Romeo and Juliet does use a capo, and most decent capos should work on an MM Blues, I use a Dunlop capo on mine, and even though that is slightly curved, it still works well on the flat board of the Blues.
Resonators by their nature have to have heavier strings on, other wise they sound tinny, thin, and lifeless. In fact I think the 13-56 strings that the MMs come with are not that much heavier than the strings on your average jumbo acoustic, I have changed mine for 15-58s, and some of us go heavier than that!
What I would do if I was you would be to learn other stuff on your new guitar, put it into different tunings, try a bit of slide, and get used to the guitar first. Get used to the different feel of the neck, and the heavier strings. Try using picks, plectrums, fingers on it. Get the guitar really played in, and you played in to it.
Then try playing Romeo and Juliet!
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Post by SoloBill on Nov 19, 2008 21:41:06 GMT
Hi Demian,
I'm not much of a player but the most progress I ever made was when I took classical guitar lessons and I still have a Spanish guitar. I also still much prefer to play in what is basically a classical style as far as my right hand goes (I'm right handed). I am not prepared to give up that intimacy by moving to a plectrum or fingerpicks.
From experience I don't think using what I'm guessing is your normal style of playing you will get anywhere near the Mark Knopfler Romeo and Juliet sound (I also like that song by the way). At the very least you will have to experiment with a different attack to the strings with your plucking fingers.
Also, in general I find playing steel strung acoustic guitars is much harder on the fingers of both hands. Some of the ways to vary the tone of a nylon strung guitar just don't seem to work on steel strings or result in broken nails.
As for the left hand, you don't mention whether you have much experience of playing steel strung acoustic guitars. If not, can you get a chance to try out some of them and compare that to the MM Blues? The MM Blues really is quite different to a Spanish or electric guitar.
Have you also listened to the sound samples of the MM Blues and Lightning (which is the one I have) on Michael's website? Do you like those sounds (and which one)?
I'm trying to get an idea of whether you will get what you are looking for with some experimentation and practice or whether you should consider something other than an MM Blues. I chose the MM Lightning because I prefer the sound of the brass bodied instrument to the steel bodied and also because I am confident that of that type of guitar it is as good as any at the price so I can concentrate on improving my playing rather than wondering about the guitar.
Bill
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 13:37:56 GMT
Thank you all for the information, and your impressions. Michael, I don't want a refund. It's only that the guitar felt so "unusual" to me that I just wanted to be sure that it was OK, and that it wasn't due to anything that could have been misplaced during shipment, or anything like that, in order to, like Bill said, concentrate on improving my playing, instead of worrying about the guitar. Like I said, I think that most likely it's all because of my lack of experience, but I don't want to have the doubt buzzing me. After all your comments, I am confident that, indeed, it will just be a matter of practice. The only thing, I am considering is that perhaps the Lightning would have been more fitted to the tone I had in mind. But I think that's not very important right now. I rather concentrate on getting used to playing a resonator, which I think is the main issue here, and then I'll worry about tone details. By the way Bill, I did hear Michael's clips of both models, and to be honest... I like them both. But then again, that's Michael playing, not me  I bet Romeo & Juliet would sound superb in my MM BLUES if it was played by Mark Knopfler himself. Also Bill, to answer your question, I have no previous experience at all playing accoustic metal strung guitars. What I might do, is try lighter strings, at least as a starting point. Only one question Michael, would you see any problem in setting the action even lower than it is now? Thank you all again for taking the time to help. |
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Post by andys on Nov 20, 2008 14:45:56 GMT
Demian, heres a link to a youtube clip I found of someone playing Romeo and Juliet in open G with a capo uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6TBjoTd0B10He seems to get a good tone on here and its not even on a resonator. Also one thing you could do to reduce the tension on the strings is tune them lower. I usually use my resonator in open G or open D. When I want to use standard tuning, I usually put it into standard tuning using the low D of either open tunings as my reference string. This means that the standard tuning is in D rather than E, the strings are a bit slacker, and you might find it easier. Also for me it is then easier to tune the other strings back to open G or D. If you want to achieve E standard, just use a capo at the 2nd fret. I have a lowish action on my MM Blues, but I have it so it is low at the nut end, but higher up the neck for slide based stuff, so that the slide doesnt rattle on the frets. Mind you I am used to heavy strings, I use 11s and 12s on my electrics even, and not just for slide. I use Newtone 15 -58s on my resonators |
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 20, 2008 14:46:55 GMT
Hi Demain,
Thank you for your response. I really do think you are just not used to this type of guitar and that with time, that will change.
Without seeing the guitar it is difficult for me to comment about whether it would take a lower action. So to begin with, I would advise you get some lighter strings. There are no rules, just do what feels right and comfortable.
Keep in touch
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by wolvoboy on Nov 20, 2008 17:26:57 GMT
I remember when we had the Reso class in Bromsgrove,that John Alderton an Ian Mcwee was standing in front of me listening to me playing{badly} one of Johns lovely resonator guitars,Ian said that is the best way to hear what a guitar sounds like,get someone else to play it for you ,as the sound is coming towards you ,as when you play it yourself the sound is going away from you,its advice i use when ever i buy a guitar.so my advice to you Demian is get some one else to play your MM reso and stand in front and listen to what it sounds like.
For me this is the best way to hear what a guitar sounds like
wolvoboy
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Post by andys on Nov 20, 2008 17:38:36 GMT
Either that or play into a corner of a room, which is sometimes what I do. The sound bounces back a bit more and you can get a better idea of your tone.
The other thing to do is record yourself, with a mic, even on a cheap recording device.
Maybe we need to make resonators with those "sound ports" cut in the side like some top end acoustics have!!!
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)
. I was moving in a wide range of maybe 300-600 EUR (I'm from Spain, I believe that makes around 240-480 GBP). I consider that a reasonable spending for a decent beginner guitar (but then again, I may be wrong), but perhaps I would be willing to spend more, if the buy is worth it. In fact, the last point in my post was pretty much focused on obtaining some advice on this.
I bet Romeo & Juliet would sound superb in my MM BLUES if it was played by Mark Knopfler himself.